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Table the Big 12 Talk - Hit Refresh on ACC

There has been a lot of discussion about Louisville making it to the Big 12. My opinion is that joining the Big 12 would open some doors for the program, but it will present almost twice as many problems. Texas is an @sshole. I don't know that Louisville should jump just for the sake of jumping. Not into the Big 12 anyhow.... I would like for Louisville to jump to the ACC.

Star-divide

The ACC seems like a much more stable conference in every facet. I think our demographic of fans supports the east coast more so than the west/mid-west. It would make for easier competition in football. Rick Pitino would have an easier time recruiting (or not recruiting, but that's another obnoxious fanpost), and he favors the Northeast. We would be able to continue our rivalries with Pittsburgh and Syracuse. And we wouldn't have a certain Texas-sized problem to deal with when it came time for television rights, conference-payouts, conference realignments, etc.

But how do we get there? It is definitely a long shot. Miami's football program has a very realistic chance of being handed the death penalty. For football reasons, the ACC will need another team. How great would it be to get that nod? I'll answer. It would be super great.

Discuss.

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Yeah, I believe this is the case

It’s a shame because the ACC really would be the best fit

by whitacreky on Feb 6, 2012 11:11 AM EST up reply actions  

I think there are many reasons Louisville won't be going to the B1G.

I need to learn more about the academic qualifiers….

"I'm going to Wichita. Far from this opera forever more."

by FluffyFluffyDoubleChunk on Feb 6, 2012 11:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Gotta be Notre Dame or an AAU school

The Association of American Universities is a list of major research universities, of which every Big 10 school is a member.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_American_Universities

Nebraska was dropped from the list a few months after they joined the Big 10, and the league smacked them around for losing the rating (they’re working to get it back) and said the Cornhuskers would not have been invited if the league had known their rating might be revoked. The only school the league is willing to overlook on AAU qualifications is Notre Dame, because as a small private school, Notre Dame can’t really qualify for AAU status.

Why does AAU status matter? Money. The AAU ranking is based on the amount of grant funding the school receives for research projects. Big 10 schools pool academic and research resources, and they want to be sure the new guys can pull their weight in landing multimillion-dollar joint federal research grants. Some grants are only available to AAU schools (which is a pork barrel issue for legislators writing grants, but that’s another issue).

The only Big East school in the AAU is Rutgers. They also are the most popular school in the New York TV market (mostly due to volume of alumni). Both those reasons make Rutgers a prime Big 10 target. When the B1G expands, Rutgers will be the first in line, and if they can bribe Notre Dame into coming along (maybe by giving them exclusive TV rights to their nonconference games, and committing to an 8-game league football schedule), then the B1G will be in 10 states and have every major northern TV market from Chicago to New York.

Louisville isn’t even remotely on the Big 10 radar, and never will be. It’s not that we don’t have the athletic profile. It’s that we can’t make them money on the academic research side.

by TriviaGeek on Feb 6, 2012 2:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Academics kept us out of the ACC?

Is than athletic department qualification, or a university qualification?

"I'm going to Wichita. Far from this opera forever more."

by FluffyFluffyDoubleChunk on Feb 6, 2012 11:27 AM EST reply actions  

Miami is an upper tier private university

It is currently ranked #38 by US News in their well known rankings. They mave an acceptance rate of around 35%

U of L on the other hand is ravked #164 with an acceptance rate of around 75%.

just as a reference UK is ranked #124 with an acceptance rate of 70%.

The ACC schools like Duke, Wake, UNC, Miami, etc. don’t want a communter school like us to muddy their waters.

by drhustle on Feb 6, 2012 11:53 AM EST up reply actions  

This is my understanding.

The ACC deal with Pitt and Cuse was nudged along by ESPN. First of all since the Big East didn’t renew their TV contract with espn, it gave them the dual benefit of screwing the big east and putting two of the big east’s best tv markets into the ACC, who does have a contract with ESPN. This particular deal was overwhelmingly based on tv revenue. No one said “oh UofL doesn’t have good enough academics, let’s go with Pitt.”

Now, I don’t think academics is keeping us out of the ACC. Its not the Big 10. Its not like they wouldn’t take us. They just don’t need anyone else anymore so there is no reason to add us. If they lost several schools to another conference I’m sure we would be high on the list to fill the void.

by Jason G on Feb 6, 2012 12:14 PM EST reply actions  

If you missed whole circle jerk several months ago

it’s not that most people want the Big 12 over any other conference. It’s just they want it over the Big East. Obviously ACC or SEC is much better fit geographically.

by Jason G on Feb 6, 2012 12:16 PM EST up reply actions  

The Big East didn't renew their ESPN contract?

I find that hard to understand, since ESPN was the main reason behind the Big East forming in the beginning. Who did they sign a TV contract with CBS, Fox Sports, or someone else?

by JustCards on Feb 6, 2012 12:18 PM EST up reply actions  

The Big East currently has a contract with ESPN

At some point last year we had the option to renew the contract, but by not exercising the option that means that the Big East can negotiate with all of the networks at some point this year (they had to decline the renewal first). At the time Tom Jurich was strongly advocating that we renew with ESPN, but a group of schools lead by Pittsburgh’s Chancellor rallied enough support to explore other options.

by whitacreky on Feb 6, 2012 12:26 PM EST up reply actions  

No one yet.

Big East was hoping to get more money by shopping around. Now it’s kind of in a holding pattern as all the realignment crap happens.

by CardinalDude on Feb 6, 2012 12:43 PM EST up reply actions  

I think the academic argument with the ACC is BS

Sure there’s Duke, North Carolina and Virginia, but there’s also Florida State and North Carolina State. I don’t buy it

by Gettin Dieng-y With It on Feb 6, 2012 12:16 PM EST reply actions  

I understand that

Just the basic point is that the ACC’s not exactly the Ivy League — there are plenty of schools that don’t have the loftiest academic reputations

by Gettin Dieng-y With It on Feb 6, 2012 1:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Like CardChomp said earlier,

If the ACC, SEC (Sure Easy Conference in basketball), or anyone else looks at what some folks post with some obvious grammatical errors, we’ll be back in CUSA! I say we stay put. Louisville’s ratings are as good or better than anyone else on the ESPN networks. We’ll get plenty of TV time with or without a contract with Bristol.

by ruralvillefan on Feb 6, 2012 1:20 PM EST reply actions  

Not yet, but maybe soon

We were not invited to the SEC during their last round of expansion for one reason and one reason only: Protectionism. SEC bylaws required that 75% (9 out of 12) members agree on any expansion candidates. Four schools banded together to ensure that their “territories” were not encroached upon because each shared a state with an out-of-conference rival they didn’t want included in the SEC gravy train.

Florida, Georgia, South Carolina and Kentucky agreed to block Florida State, Georgia Tech, Clemson and Louisville from admission. (Incidentally, fear of an SEC raid is the only reason the ACC expanded; they wanted to be sure they still had 12 teams for a football title game if and when the SEC stole a team or two.)

With addition of Missouri and Texas A&M, those bylaws may well be changed. If not, those four states still have the clout to block any expansion candidate (10 our of 14 votes is only 71% — not enough to accept an expansion team). That said, Mike Slive was rumored to be very peeved at the “gentleman’s agreement” that kept the most compelling candidates — particularly Florida State — out of contention.

With the exception of Texas A&M getting the league into the talent- and audience-rich Lone Star State, the SEC doesn’t need new markets in the same way the Big 10 does, partly because the SEC doesn’t own a cable network and mostly because the SEC gets airtime in every market already. Six consecutive national titles will do that. What the SEC needs are marquee names that draw in casual viewers, because that’s what ups the value of their TV contract.

Florida State is a marquee football name, especially to casual viewers who don’t realize how much the Seminoles have dropped off recently. I expect Slive will move to change the bylaws that let the KY-SC-GA-FL quartet block Florida State from League entry.

If that bylaw changes, Louisville has a puncher’s chance of SEC membership, largely because we can up the value of a TV contract that no one else can — the SEC basketball contract. Georgia Tech and Clemson probably move the needle a little on the SEC football side, but Louisville pegs the needle on the basketball side, not least because Louisville-Kentucky gives the league a Duke-Carolina equivalent to sell. The question for the SEC becomes who gives them more of a money bump: Clemson-SC in football, Georgia-Georgia Tech in football, ot Louisville-Kentucky in basketball.

On it’s face, Louisville doesn’t stand a chance. But if the addition of Florida State has already maxed the football TV money, we have a maybe 20% chance of getting the nod, simply because we represent a new, underdeveloped revenue stream.

by TriviaGeek on Feb 6, 2012 1:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Dude, you're on top of it with the realignment talk.

I’m loving it!

"I'm going to Wichita. Far from this opera forever more."

by FluffyFluffyDoubleChunk on Feb 6, 2012 2:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Rumor before any of this round of expansion began was

If they expanded to 14 we’d be out because of the gentleman’s agreement if they expanded to 16 we’d be near the top of the list. Apparently Slive and Jurich are pretty good friends. And you’re right, on the surface Louisville wouldn’t be an obvious choice because it’s not a new TV market. But our program has so much growth potential right now, and most people are seeing that.

I wouldn’t be surprised if it happened sooner rather than later. ESPN seems to be pushing the 16 team super-conference idea, and of the “available” teams I think we’d be a hot commodity. There was some speculation that the Big 12 snagged WVU first to prevent the SEC from getting them. Plus the SEC seems to be the only conference that actually cares about geography.

But the Big 12 is still our most obvious destination.

by Cards86 on Feb 6, 2012 10:31 PM EST up reply actions  

I think Jurich is pretty good friends with anyone.

"Free throws don't win and lose games." -John Calipari

by AllHailUofL on Feb 7, 2012 11:50 AM EST up reply actions  

I would love joining the ACC

We would dominate in football with Strong at the helm. And b-ball would obviously rock with Cuse and Pitt soon joining. Who wouldn’t want similar b-ball and to dominate in football in a conference that takes from instead of being taken from?

by CardsRuleBE on Feb 6, 2012 1:35 PM EST reply actions  

I guess the question should be re-stated:

“If Miami gets the death penalty in football, does the ACC look to replace them? And if so, how does Louisville get a foot in the door?”

The academic qualifier may or may not come into play.

Again, this hypothetical hinges on Miami getting axed.

"I'm going to Wichita. Far from this opera forever more."

by FluffyFluffyDoubleChunk on Feb 6, 2012 1:45 PM EST reply actions  

There will be no death penalty

1) the NCAA will never enact another death penalty, because the TV networks won’t allow it. It damages TV inventory too much and also punishes every school already on the football schedule. Logistically, it’s just not feasible anymore. The NCAA can brutalize the Hurricanes with bowl bans and scholarship reductions and garnishment of TV revenue — which, incidentally, is worse than the death penalty, because Miami then has to pay the expense of fielding a football team but see very little of the associated revenue. It’s like making someone work a job for no pay — it;s worse than getting fired.

2) The ACC will never expel Miami. The TV market is too good. The brand value is too good. It would open up the ACC football TV contract for renegotiation, and I promise the league gets less money without Miami.

by TriviaGeek on Feb 6, 2012 1:53 PM EST up reply actions  

very, very interesting. Great insight.

"I'm going to Wichita. Far from this opera forever more."

by FluffyFluffyDoubleChunk on Feb 6, 2012 1:58 PM EST up reply actions  

SMU

They got the death penalty for far worse offenses than Miami. Members of their board of trustees were caught paying players even after being warned about it. That’s way beyond what happened at Miami. And when their program took 10-15 years to become even half way decent again many in the NCAA admitted that in hind sight the death penalty may be too much for a school to bear.

by cbcard on Feb 7, 2012 12:24 AM EST up reply actions  

I say we stay put

Add memphis, Temple, Xavier in basketball…….

Shayne Cecil

by cards1986 on Feb 7, 2012 3:37 AM EST reply actions  

No more non-football members!

We are at a point now where the football-only and all-sport members outnumber the non-football members, and we need to keep it that way.

"I am willing to donate to the charity that is working on the prevention of whatever the hell Dick Vitale has." - noobmaster

by rickmbari on Feb 7, 2012 11:52 AM EST up reply actions  

I say we stay put

Add memphis, Temple, Xavier in basketball…….

Shayne Cecil

by cards1986 on Feb 7, 2012 3:37 AM EST reply actions  

Catholic Division / Metropolitan Research University Division.

"Free throws don't win and lose games." -John Calipari

by AllHailUofL on Feb 7, 2012 11:52 AM EST up reply actions  

I like it - Saints vs Sinners?

Saved vs Doomed?
Heavenly Half vs "Hell"acious Half?

This could get fun. Ok CC’er’s. Let’s hear it.

by Carolina Cardinal on Feb 7, 2012 12:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah thats it beauty and the BIG EAST BEAST!!!!

Lol thats it…….. ..watch out America
Screw the big 12 and the ACC

Shayne Cecil

by cards1986 on Feb 7, 2012 9:30 PM EST reply actions  

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