Fan Poll: "Louisville First", Injuries, and Recruiting
by Chick-Stratino'sUrDaddy on Jan 20, 2012 3:53 PM EST
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Since recruiting has come up a lot lately and the best player in Kentucky, "since Rando" according to Jody Demilng, is all set to commit to UK at 4pm,... I thought I'd take a poll of your thoughts.
In fairness to Rick Pitino and his staff, I think that if we are being honest with ourselves, we all know that if it weren't for so many injuries this year, we would probably only have a couple of losses right now. We all believe that we would be playing much better than we are, with a bunch of "Louisville First" guys. Everyone would be all about the "Louisville First" mantra. We would all be completely on board with the philosophy that "we don't want any stinky ole Super Elite/ Top10 players with one eye on the NBA."
However, we do have a lot of injuries; and, whether we/ Rick like it or not, the perception out there right now is that he's working his players too hard, thereby causing the injuries. I don't think that's true, and neither do many-many other people, including several doctors I've heard on the radio lately. The bottom line is that whether it's true or not doesn't really matter; because, it's all about what a 17-18 year old kid believes.
So, I now put the question to you. Do you think that given the current climate of College Basketball/ perceptions about the program, that Rick Pitino will be able to recruit the type of talent needed to win a National Championship before he retires (in 2017, allegedly). Because after all, that is the goal isn't it? There's a lot to be said for enjoying a ride like we had last year; but, if the ultimate goal isn't to win a Championship,..... well, then our expectations are not where they need to be.
Consider the following factors: Perception of Rick Pitino and his practice habits, playing time distribution habits, players to the NBA track record, and anything else that you think recruits care about. I ask that you also consider what the "Louisville First" approach to recruiting could have resulted in this year, had we not experienced so many tragic injuries.
BTW, I call complete and total bullshit on anyone who says they didn't think this team was going to be a legit Top 5-10 squad/ Championship contender prior the start of the season.
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I voted no, but with a caveat.
I believe CRP at this point has proven he can’t really recruit with the big dogs, but I DO believe he’s capable of having assistant coaches that can.
See: “FUUUUUUULLLLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!”
by Justin Gingey Smith on Jan 20, 2012 4:17 PM EST reply actions
There's really no reason to believe that our current assistants can though. I mean...they haven't.
by James Sutherland on Jan 20, 2012 5:18 PM EST up reply actions
How do you know they can't?
It’s not like football where you have 20-30 man recruiting classes every year. Unless you are losing several underclassman to the league every year there should only be a few spots to fill. They haven’t been here that long. Anyone knows realistically you won’t see the fruit of their labor for a couple of years.
Fuller was only here 1 year and built a monster. If you're a dynamic recruiter it's going to show early on.
by James Sutherland on Jan 21, 2012 4:59 PM EST up reply actions
He had a sort of aura
That he was gonna make the Louisville brand BIG. And he did, for the brief class he was here for (2012).
Remember the Beef Bowl!
Well considering Derek Willis committed to UK
and said it was between UK and Purdue it doesnt look like we can compete with Purdue either.
I can see people saying CRP is working the kids so hard that they are injury prone. We have had so many injruies that most anyone would have this thought cross their mind.
I can also see people saying there is no way CRP is working them to hard because the NCAA limits practice time etc. That makes just as much sense and I cant blame anyone for thinking that way either.
Now as far as recruiting is concerned hes getting hammered. I don’t believe that you have to have the #1 recruiting class every year but you still gotta get top talent to compete for championships.
"Winning gets you where you want to go"
-CS5-
Oh,... you mean Lottery pick Gordon Hayward and 2 rounder Shelvin Mack? Yeah,.. they definitely didn't have NBA talent on those teams.
They did have NBA talent the last 2 years
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by Chick-Stratino'sUrDaddy on Jan 20, 2012 11:33 PM EST up reply actions
We didn't
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by Chick-Stratino'sUrDaddy on Jan 20, 2012 11:33 PM EST up reply actions
I think Chick makes a good point.
Preston Knowles was UL’s best player last year and I believe he was a 3* recruit. Your best player should not be a 3* recruit, and when he gets hurt, your should not lose to Morehead State. Injuries have been a problem, but I don’t think a healthy Marra and Buckles makes UL a championship contender. I can’t comment on the fat kid that Pitino won’t let play, because I have never seen him play. Besides, he is fat and a freshman, so Pitino probably would not play him anyway. Oh yeah, when you are in a hurry to get a guy like SVT back on the court, that says a lot about Pitino’s recruiting.
Teams sometimes struggle to 1st round wins bruh,.. it happens. Happened to UK last year before they went to the FF.
Take UK’s “best player” (Knight) off the floor for the last 7 minutes last year and they don’t beat Princeton at the Buzzer.
Also,… Scott,… like I said in the post, if it weren’t for all the injuries no one would ahve a problem with the recruiting because this would be a very good, very deep, legit top5 team right now
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by Chick-Stratino'sUrDaddy on Jan 21, 2012 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
09 had a four year 3* player go in the lottery
And a five star go in the lottery.
It’s about how you develop the player. Brad Stevens can’t recruit to save his life, but he developed those two well.
Remember the Beef Bowl!
Furthermore...
Hayward has been a flop in the NBA and Mack made an ill-advised decision.
Remember the Beef Bowl!
All that may be true, but they were still good enough college players to get drafted.
Also, they were both better scorers that we’ve had here in awhile. IE: players who could get themselves a shot consistently
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by Chick-Stratino'sUrDaddy on Jan 21, 2012 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly
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by Chick-Stratino'sUrDaddy on Jan 21, 2012 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
I have come to the decision
That I am not going to rag in pitino anymore. I just feel bad for our team at this point with all the injuries so no need to pile on.
by Jason G on Jan 20, 2012 5:52 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Question: Has anyone here have experience in the D-I BB recruiting world? (i.e. recruited, scout, etc.)
I’ll admit out of the gate that I don’t, which is why I can’t answer the question based on anything. But there are so many comments and opinions regarding what recruits want, which see speculative at best. Generally it is assumed that every top recruit is short-sighted and cares only about getting to the NBA and big$$$. But top recruits come from all over the place and I assume have different priorities, many who likely have a desire to develop under a learned coach or who truly want four years of college or who knows?
I guess I am interested in the perspective of someone who lives (or has lived) in the D-I recruiting world enough to have insight on current perceptions of Pitino ad UL.
Does NAIA D-I soccer count?
Hoop Dreams has always framed my view of what basketball recruiting looks like. It’s a small sample size and dated but after hearing guys like Larry O’Bannon talk about their recruiting process, I think it’s relatively mundane for 90% of recruits. They like a coach, the location or have a connection to the team. The NBA talents & AAU stars are probably who you’re referring to & I doubt you’ll hear them say much about the seedier tactics that go on.
Didn’t Cisco Garcia commit sight unseen b/c he liked Pitino & had a relationship with Dean? Sometimes you just get lucky. Seems like RP’s been on the Telfair side of that coin more than the Garcia side.
by UL is my hot hot sex on Jan 20, 2012 7:52 PM EST up reply actions
Recruited for soccer is more than I can say -- definitely counts.
Just watched Hoop Dreams last month and it was so awesome, despite Marquette being the relevant school.
Your last paragraph summarizes my gut feelings about it for 99% of schools other than whatever it is that Cal is doing. I always wonder why players don’t talk more about the recruiting process after college — especially the alleged dirty recruiting tactics of the schools that players didn’t choose.
by WindyCityCard on Jan 20, 2012 11:30 PM EST up reply actions
Hah, I wasn't really recruited. Not like D-I hoops.
and sadly, there were no recruiting hostess’ on my visit. I did host several recruits later, that was always fun.
by UL is my hot hot sex on Jan 21, 2012 12:21 AM EST up reply actions
Potential Starting Lineup for next year;
1. Siva (McDonald’s All American)
2. Russ/Luke Hancock
3. Blackshear (McDonald’s All American)
4. Chane (McDonald’s All American)
5. Gorgui
If you had shown me this lineup during the Bahamas tournament, and told me that these guys would all be around for the 2012/13 season, I would have figured us for National Championship contenders. Point is that while we aren’t exactly lighting it up on the recruiting trail, the real problem is that we aren’t getting enough out of the highly touted recruits that we are bringing in.
I don't think Pitino needs to recruit 5 star talent to win a championship
I think he needs to recruit shooters, have one really great player, and then get lucky. It almost worked in 2005.
by Ellis from Compton on Jan 20, 2012 9:55 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Agree...
it’s not necessarily about recruiting the five star talent, but about cultivating talent and building teams like that 2005 team. Despite all this talk, I still have to say that I find watching the same players play for several years and develop a lot more interesting than I would getting new players every year. And keep in mind that recruiting all the five star talent one and dones who have “one eye on the NBA” does not guarantee a championship or a final four.
It’s not that I’m happy with losing early in the tournament, but I am happy with having teams that I know and have personality and are playing for the team I love. Louisville first.
by bythesidewalk on Jan 21, 2012 2:13 AM EST up reply actions
absolutely -- the development over four years is the best part of college hoops.
of all the various aspects of coaching, the extent to which he can develop and mature players is one of the most interesting. it’s also the reason we can still realistically (barely) discuss whether this ravaged depleted sorry-ass charlie brown-luck team will make the tourny — deep down we know that pitino made his career out of getting teams to exceed all expectations and he might have enough left to orchestrate another great run against the odds. i dont think there are many coaches out there that could elicit such discussions in identical circumstances.
the other great part about four years is the loyalty that develops over four years. it breeds that sense of family between any of us and any player that has ever put on a uofl uni (that someone here mentioned on a recent post). pro sports don’t offer that type of loyalty to a place (unless youre a franchise player).
by WindyCityCard on Jan 21, 2012 3:36 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
How about one really great player WHO CAN CREATE HIS OWN SHOT, one decent rebounder and then some shooters
And let’s throw in some decent free throw shooters. It amazed me how mant games we lost because of either terrible free throw shooting, being badly outrebounded, or both. We finished 25-10. But if we had equaled our opponents rebounding totals and shot around 70% from the line we would have been 33-2 and won the Big East season Championship, the Big East Tournament, and been a #1 seed in the NCAA (which means we would not have played Morehead State). Just think about what an enormous difference that makes in our season.
Free throws and rebounds folks. Forget about them at your own peril.
by Carolina Cardinal on Jan 21, 2012 6:32 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
One sentence in and I knew who wrote this.
And quite on target I might add.
It was the misspellings right? Haha.
by Carolina Cardinal on Jan 21, 2012 5:32 PM EST up reply actions
Interesting little tid bit I discovered
Jacob Pullen, the 4 year standout guard for Kansas State (Fear the Beard signs from the student section) was the 88th ranked player coming out of high school. He had an amazing career at KSU and was arguably the best scoring point guard in the NCAA’a two years ago. Why do I bring this up? Because currently our 1 man recruiting class for next year contains a scoring PG who coincidentally enough is ranked… 88th. You don’t have to have top 10 guys to win a championship. Last years NCAA championship had 2 players between both teams in the NBA. The year before, 2 players between both teams. I’m sure you can go back further to a UNC team that had 3-4 but the point is Pitino can’t recruit too many top shelf guys who will commit to Louisville First because it might take more than one year to get it, the system. (See Remote’s brilliant post) I for one am fine with that.
Check this out
Here is a list the NC games that took place from 2000-2011. All of the winners had some type of NBA talent on their team, and I am pretty sure that all of the losers did as well.
2000 Michigan State vs Florida
2001 Duke vs Arizona
2002 Maryland vs Indiana
2003 Syracuse vs Kansas
2004 Connecticut vs Georgia Tech
2005 North Carolina vs Illinois
2006 Florida vs UCLA
2007 Florida vsOhio State
2008 Kansas vs Memphis
2009 North Carolina vs Michigan State
2010 Duke vs Butler
2011 Connecticut vs Butler
NBA talent
I believe I have my facts in order. Pitino has recruited (and enrolled) exactly four players in his Louisville career who have made it to the NBA. Three of the four are not in their teams regular rotations.
This is not the talent level that will regularly contend for a championship.
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