In Defense Of Coach Pitino
by johnnyjoejohnson on Jan 2, 2012 9:07 PM EST
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PrintLet me start this post with a statement we can all agree on: Coach Pitino* is a master of manipulation through the media. He works in the media like other artists might work in oil or clay (Christmas story, anyone?).
Last year, Pitino told us it was a bridge year. “Past-the-first-weekend” fans said, “a bridge from what to what? Immorality to mediocrity?” Other fans (on this very site, no less) say, “Pitino was just manipulating the media so we’d all be happy when the team didn’t totally suck.”
These fans point out how awesome Preston Knowles was. Surely, a coach with someone that awesome should make it past the first weekend. Was Preston awesome? Indisputably yes. Was he a basketball player capable of leading a true final four contending team? Let’s see, most final four teams have 1st round talent….preston was drafted in the 1st round…of the Ukrainian league. Ukraine? Seriously? The Ukraine is weak. You get jumped just coming out of a store in the Ukraine. In my opinion, Preston become who he was because he was coached by Pitino for 4 years. Any other program, and Preston isn’t half the player he is today.
So, maybe that team didn’t have final four talent, but they shouldn’t have “flamed out” in the first round, they did much worse than they should have. The scholars among us know that the best way to make people believe what you are saying is to cite when you said it before (Johnnyjoejohnson, 2011). Last year’s team had an RPI of 17, AP rank of 14, Winning percentage of 71%. Pitino’s past-the-first-weekend teams at UL had an average RPI of 7.3, AP ranking of 7, Winning percentage of 82%. His “Flame out” teams have had an average RPI of 44, AP ranking of 22, Winning percentage of 65%. Last year’s team was more like the 6 teams that didn’t make it past the first weekend than it was teams that did. We loved that team because of who they were and how they played, not because they were a great team.
Was Pitino just lowering expectations last year? Simply put: Last years’ Louisville team was not that good. It was indeed a bridge year.
This brings us to this year’s team. A bridge connects two pieces of land. Two elite eights and top 10 finishes on one side, more of the same on the other, right? What made him think this year was going to be any better than the bridge year? For one, his freshmen (you know he was thinking of Russ not Gorgi) and sophomores would improve, and he was bringing in his best recruiting class in years who would contribute immediately. I’m on record saying I would make love to a Donkey if it would somehow fix Wayne’s shoulder- which, coincidentally is the classiest thing I’ve ever said 8 beers in. In addition to not having Wayne for the UK game, Chane made a stupid freshman mistake and picked up 3 fouls in the first 5 minutes of the game, in essence taking him entirely out of the game. Would last year have been a bridge year if it meant zero freshman contributing?
Let’s take a minute to think about this season. It’s Jan 2. We’re ranked 10/11 in the major polls, and our RPI is 13. Our winning percentage is 86% for chrissakes. We just had the worst week imaginable because we lost to two top 10 teams by a combined 10 points. Sure the offense has been ugly. Sure we don’t have anyone other than Russ who can score. Anybody remember the sound in freedom hall when someone from Twill’s team pulled up from 3? Something between a groan and a boo? Pitino doesn’t need offense to win- he needs defense- and we got defense.
When your UK friend says they would have fired Rick if he was still at UK for not making it past the first weekend 7 out of 10 years, I suggest calling him an asshole, because guess what? He is an asshole. It doesn’t have to be like that. Being furious after every loss isn’t the only legitimate reaction. Every time your team loses doesn’t have to be a cause for a re-fucking-evaluation of everything your team stands for.
Wayne’s coming back. Russ is a beast. Siva will remember how to shoot. Pitino will figure out how to get Kuric open looks. This is the other end of the bridge, and it starts now.
*when I hear someone under 20 call Pitino “Rick” it makes me what to strangle them old-school Bobby Knight style. Does this mean I’m getting old? These kids today don’t respect their elders like they did in my day (i.e., the 90s) when Coach Crum, not Denny or CDC, was manning the sidelines).
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Nice post, good perspective.
And I love the Christmas Story reference! Possibly the best line in that movie -and it has a lot of’ great ones!
He's had a Decade!
We are Louisville! We are supposed to be better than this. I know he has some great accomplishments, but have you stopped to think he’s taken Providence…PROVIDENCE! to the Final Four as many times as he’s taken a top 5 All- Time Program? I’ve been a ’Ville fan for over 30 years. This is not what we should accept! Championships make all the difference and we should EXPECT this. We are LOUISVILLE! Not Podunk Central State! I want him to turn it around but the expectations I had 11 years ago have yet to see the light of day. Why?
Sorry...
Don’t mean to sound as if I’m giving up on the team because I’m not, but CRP has NOT performed to my expectations and the fact that we’re losing year in & year out to UK & all their Kool-Aid drinking fan base that rub it in is not exactly fun. I just don’t understand why it doesn’t seem obvious to everyone where the real problem is. Everything rises & falls on leadership. And who has been the “leader” for the past 10+ years at the ‘Ville? We cannot afford another bridge year nor another early exit in the tourney. Again…We’re Louisivlle! Just like Pitino’s inspiring speach during the pregame video & line- ups. We should be at the top year in & year out. Coach P hasn’t got us there. Why?
by ruralvillefan on Jan 3, 2012 8:06 AM EST up reply actions
You make great points. disregard haters of your POV.
JJJ makes some exceptional ones as well though too.
GO! CARDS!
BEAT!
PURDUE!
Since you are comparing UofL to UK
I should point out that each have been to the final four the same number of times in the last 11 years.
Is there another sport that counts reaching the final four as an achievement the way CBB does?
If you expected 80s era CDC or for that matter 90s UKCRP, when Rick took over then your expectations were unrealistic. The game and the way it is administrated (recruiting, one & dones) is so vastly different now. Do you think VCU or Butler would have ever sniffed the FF back then?
Uk has 5 first round draft picks and can’t get there. Louisville has an amazing team that overcomes all kinds of obstacles and inexplicable loses in the first round.
When US Reed hits an off balance half court shot and knocks one of CDCs best teams out of the tourney did that make him an under-performing coach?
Glad to hear you haven’t given up, No one should like losing, but get a grip.
Point well taken...
Not giving up at all but remember…this is Rick Pitino. Why were those expectations unrealisitc? Why won’t he recruit a few one & done’s? Why can’t he land the #1 recruiting class in the nation? Are these unrealistic expectations? Half- court shots are one thing and you have to remember…we won it all in ‘80 & were back in the Final Four in ’82 & ’83; but 5 first weekend losses? Rick Pitino? Louisville? We’re better than this!
by ruralvillefan on Jan 3, 2012 10:07 AM EST up reply actions
I agree...
and disagree. I agree I had higher expectations of Coach Pitino. But he hasn’t been a complete failure either. As for the “one and done’s”. He is an old school coach, who has spent the majority of his career recruiting solid 3-4-yr players. Tom Izzo is much the same way, always competitive but with a well coached group of 3-4 yr players. It also didn’t help that Pitino got burned by 3 recruits (Telfair, Smith, forgot the third players name…sorry) in one year who were top tier but opted for the NBA at the last second.
RP has done well but I believe most people expected better
And I know a lot of people who no longer listen to his pressers because of the very strange, inconsistent things he says. It’s hard to know what to believe. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dHUfy_YBps&feature=player_detailpage
Wait, VCU and Butler reached the Final Four using one and dones?
You seem to be implying that modern recruiting and one-and-dones are the reason VCU and Butler made the Final Four the last two years. I can’t agree. In fact, I would say they are the proof that you don’t need to recruit dirty or use one-year prima donnas to get there.
"I am willing to donate to the charity that is working on the prevention of whatever the hell Dick Vitale has." - noobmaster
It may not be politically correct...
to state the obvious as you are doing ruralvillefan but you are spot on!!! Good for you to tell it like it REALLY is………………no hate in that. You are entitled to speak your mind. Go CARDS!
Who's fault is It we had no talent last year?
Oh yeah, Rick’s. You seem to forget recruiting is probably the #1 reason many fans are fed up with it. Other reasons include early tournament flame outs, constant questionable statements to the media, poor personal decision making off the court, failure to develop NBA talent etc etc.
The point is don’t act like his detractors are basing their feelings on him on two losses to top ten teams. It has nothing to do with that. This isn’t UK. UL fans don’t lose sleep at night when we lose to UK. It’s the fact that our team came out looking completely unprepared. Maybe Kentucky just made us look unprepared. I don’t know. Regardless, the buck stops at Pitino.
I don’t even want to argue who’s right or wrong but don’t act like pitino detractors are spoiled little ingrates who should be worshiping the ground he walks on if we knew anything about sports. We have plenty of legitimate reasons to be unhappy with the return on investment.
After a loss like UK,
70% of the comments here are detracting from Pitino. Your viewpoint doesn’t tick me off, but the fact that like, every single comment in some places is “Pitino sucks” isn’t fun to read and I could read the exact same thing over at ITV.
Remember the Beef Bowl!
Well man
the fact is a large portion of the fan base thinks he has underachieved. I don’t know why its inappropriate to voice one’s frustration after another loss at our rival. I don’t think that makes this site ITV. There weren’t 87 fan posts about it or anything.
I don't get how you can say the team looked completely unprepared.
We almost beat the biggest, most athletically-talented team in the country on the road in a game with crazy officiating. The reason we almost beat said team is because of a great defensive game plan from the coaching staff. Yeah the offense is ugly, but unfortunately there is no magic “make-offense-better” dust. Not to mention uk is a very good defensive team as well.
I get being disappointed in the recruiting. But looking back, a lot of it has just been bad freaking luck. And the fact that Cal is reeling in 5 star after 5 star is forcing people to have unrealistic expectations. I just don’t get the shit storm after these two games. This Cardinal team is already good and will be very good come March, and the primary reason will be Coach Rick Pitino.
I bleed red and black. I poop blue.
Brilliant post Johnny. I can always appreciate it when someone tries to bring levity to the madness.
I see both sides of the coin here. I don’t think everything is fine, but I don’t think it’s time for people to panic either.
There’s plenty for concern but also plenty of reason to believe things will get turned around.
But they need to turn fast, these next 4 games really are crucial and will set the tone for the rest of the year.
@St.Johns, ND, @Prov, and Depaul are all must wins. I know it sounds funny saying that right now, but if you lose anyone of those games or god forbid the 2 on the road,.. which aren’t gimmies, then you’re in full blown panic mode.
Then you’ve got to win some pretty tough road games to finish near the top of the BEast
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by Chick-Stratino'sUrDaddy on Jan 3, 2012 12:05 AM EST reply actions
Fantastic post.
People put far too much on Coach Pitino. It’s easy to forget that we’ve been on the losing end of some bad breaks in the past decade. If Terrence Williams shows up against Mich St. in 2009, we’re in, at least the final four; and I’d like to say that in 2008 if we were to have played North Carolina anywhere but their backyard, we would have, again, been to a final four. Imagine last year’s team with Samardo Samuels, or this year’s with Terrence Jennings. None of these things are Pitino’s fault. Nor are Wayne’s injury to his shoulder, his previous knee injury, Marra or Van Treese’s ailments, Peyton’s woes both physical and mental, Ware’s eligibility issues.. etc.
Point being: the man is, at this point, really making lemonade out of lemons.. Actually no, not lemons, because what the fuck else would you make lemonade out of, he’s making lemonade out of milk and powdered laundry detergent. It’s easy to take these two close losses to really solid teams to heart and start calling for heads, but the season is extremely young. If, at this injury-plagued point in the season, we’re only 7 points worse than the most “talented” team in the country on their own court in an extremely hostile environment with absolutely no shots falling and Peyton Siva passing the ball to the enemy; I’m pretty pleased with our chances for a deep tournament run.
We just need to sustain the comeback
In both of these losses we overcame big deficits and THEN we let it slip away. There are fine points to winning at those times, we just to educate ourselves on how to sustain that lead after we make the big effort.
mmm, powdered milk and laundry detergent lemonade
I never would have tried that on my own. Thanks for the recipe!
"I am willing to donate to the charity that is working on the prevention of whatever the hell Dick Vitale has." - noobmaster
Good post.
I agree with chick in that I can certainly see both sides here. I heard a lot of talk (not from this site) that we were “going to win a NC in four years or less,” when RP was hired. I was hopeful, but not that optimistic. However, ten years later, having accomplished what we have, I’m definitely disappointed that we havn’t accomplished more.
I also think that if you look at RP’s tenure here, it’s fair to question where we are with where we think we should be or think we should be as a whole, but let’s slow down on this particular season. It was an ugly week. Things can turnaround. We all know RP’s teams get better in Jan. and Feb. Plus we are just getting healthy and gaining experience with key fresh.
I also don’t want to be the school to run off two HofF coaches. But again.. I see both sides of the argument here.
by grey on Jan 3, 2012 4:44 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Sounds like another, whiney, apology.
Throw all the stats, the conjecture and all the other bs you want to….
The only thing you don’t honestly address is his lack of results.
On another negative note-Ricky has basically disassociated the program with players of the past. Unlike Turdapari, Ricky does nothing to celebrate the past around here.
His time has come. He needs to go. We are now a step or two above WKU-and that is because of Rick.
BS
IM sorry, but Im tired of defending Pitino, whom I refer to as the Godfather. His entrance music at Freedom Hall when he walked in After the team and everyone else. Im just tired of listening to his hyperbole.
The only thing he/his staff takes responsibility for is Blackshear gaining 15 lbs, being out of shape. Really?? Your most valuable freshman, trying to recover from a shoulder injury and No One on staff saw him gain 15 lbs!??? Im sorry, but Im watching my most talented frosh day in and day out.
The only reason this team is ranked Top 10 is because we came in highly ranked and hadn’t lost until last week. Its the way the AP works.
If Nothing is his fault, then he also doesn’t get credit when the team does well, correct? Cant have it both ways.
I am normally the one saying the glass is half full, and I still believe it is. Big East play is upon us, and this is where the rubber meets the road. Pitino coached UL teams usually shine during mid January-February. Lets see what happens.
Louisville First, Cardinal Forever…..
by eoleigh5 on Jan 3, 2012 8:02 AM EST via mobile reply actions
We dont hire kings or absolute monarchs.
UL hires coaches. Denny went to the Final Four his first year here. We are being outrecruited by UConn, Duke, Kansas, North Carolina and Kentucky historically, and now throw in Ohio State, Florida and Michigan State. We are being outschemed by Butler, and have lost in the first round to Morehead, California, and other than the TWill and Cisco years, have been gone after the first weekend or NIT. RP is the highest paid coach in the country. We are UKs bitch, and will continue to be. A little anger is certainly warranted here, and I WILL NOT apologize for it. It is a New Year. Everybody needs to look at their performance, and formulate a plan. RP is no different. Get a fucking plan, play the guys who deserve it, recruit better, and stop grinding these guys up on treadmill. Oh, and stop shooting your big mouth off about the conference, your retirement, and your imagined succession plan. Doing your job, taking some ownership and staying out of the bars would be appreciated, at least every other Friday when you bank that $300,000 gross paycheck. Over and out.
by Chip Constant on Jan 3, 2012 8:09 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
wow
i thought Jason G captured my feelings perfectly, but you’ve done a better job than him. well said.
Main reason I stay away from CC after we lose to UK
Same shit every year from the same lame ass chicken little fans.
chicken little card fan: OMFG our team is in disarray Rick Pitino sucks balls!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Smart card fan: we only lost by 7 to the best team in the country….
chicken little card fan: RICK SUCKS, SIVA SUCKS, THEY ALL LOOK LIKE EDGAR SOSA!!!!
Smart card Fan: Huh?
chicken little card fan: Because UK SAYS THEY ARE ELITE AND PUTS IT ON SHIRTS, WE MUST BE ELITE RIGHT? THEREFORE I NEED TO BITCH WHEN WE LOSE TO THEM!!!
seriously, take a deep breath, these are the same dumbass fans that stopped going to football games after we lost to Marshall and were the same fans saying Co-Chronicle Man of the Year HCCS isn’t that coach that we need. Same fans that said our football season is over only 5 games into the season…. seriously these trolls will talk to whomever listens. Honestly who gives a shit when it comes to these fans? I know i spent my money and time last week traveling to Charlotte to cheer for my boys. I’m sure those fans just bitched from the circa 1982 dirty couch in their mothers basement saying we are terrible…
by gary west on Jan 3, 2012 8:20 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
This 'Ville Fan Drives 2 & 1/2 Hours One Way...
to show up at the KFC Yum! Center to cheer on his beloved Cardinals…This fan has listened to the useless excuses over & over each year with “What if’s” and so forth. I remember when we were 12- 19 not too many years ago and I’ve stuck with them through thick and thin. So these “fans” you say should not be taken seriously are just as faithful and supportive as anyone who still drinks the Pitino Kool Aid. The fact of the matter is that until we hang more banners, we’re not reaching our potential as the University of Louisville Basketball Program. And, if the football team would’ve beaten Marshall & the Florida International Airport Baggage Boys, we’d have gotten a better bowl bid. But we have a coach in Football who is turning the tide & righting the ship…with RECRUITING!! Football will be fine. We’ll see after tonight if basketball will be too.
by ruralvillefan on Jan 3, 2012 9:07 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah i've got season football tickets
and was at every game this year and have been to 80% of the bowl games over the last decade. Don’t have season Bball but make it when I can.
I guess that makes me a chicken little, not qualified to voice my opinion unlike yourself.
I have had Football and Basketball season tix for 30 years.
And I am not the only AARP guy with Pitino problems. Laugh it off if you want, but in this economy, everybody is accountable. A little heat never hurt anyone, and it tends to bring clarity. This aint no johnnyjoe comelately thing. We make a deep run, fine. If we look like a M.A.S.H. unit in March with no outside shooters and get smoked by ScratchAnkle State or some bullshit I say Jurich calls a meeting and sets some parameters, or makes some calls. I can handle a little more performance and a little less drama. The Pitino mystique was over 15 years ago.
I agree
My only problem with Pitino is not what he does in recruiting or in practice or in coaching the game.
It’s all the shit he talks. I seriously wish somebody would just tell him to shut up sometimes. It’s like he’s that dumb college player that tweets too much. He needs a coach to tell him to stop talking and start doing.
BTW, i think he’s doing a pretty good job, I just hate hearing him talk all the damn time.
I agree on this point,
Most of it comes from his nature, but how much comes from being required by the BE or the NCAA to stand up and answer the same questions over and over again?
He's required to do interviews with the press.
He has every right to deflect and change the subject on questions he doesn’t like. Just because he has an opinion doesn
Right, Which is why I say MOST of it does come from his own nature
and I agree someone should stand in the back and work out some kind of hand signal to let him know when it’s time to stop talking.
You should have a big ass problem with what he's done in recruiting and coaching.
He’s definitely not gotten the job done on the recruiting trail.
You can’t be an elite program like Duke, UNC, Kansas, or (Yes) even UK without bringing in NBA level talent every year. EVERY YEAR. Not a few one year and none the next. Doesn’t work that way.
Commitments From 2002-present
2002: Fracisco, Dean, Kendall Dartez, Prileu Davis (1NBA player, 1Great CBB player, 2Washes)
2003: Brandon Jenkins, Nouha Diakite, Nouha Diakite, Nate Daniels (Jenkins solid,& 3Washes)
2004: Telfair, Palacios, Lorenzo Wade, Brian Johnson, Terrance Farley, Lamar Roberson, Donta Smith (Palacios, good but always injured, Loved Farley but the rest of the class gave you nothing)
2005: T-Will, Amir Johnson, Jonathan Huffman, Andre McGee, Clarence Holloway, Bryan Harvey, Chad Millard (1NBA Player& a really good CBB player, the rest was a wash).
2006: E-5, DC, Jerry Smith, & Sosa were arguably CRP’s most productive class ever (2NBA players, one of which was a head case who didn’t give us much, and 2 very good CBB players).
2007: George Goode&Preston! (1Amazing CBB player! & 1Player who was never healthy).
2008: Samardo, Swop, Jennings, Kuric (1NBA player, 1Very good& 2 good CBB players).
2009: Siva, Buckles, SVT, Marra (1NBA player? and 3 good CBB players)
2010: Gorgiu, Russ, Justice, Justin Coleman (2 Very good CBB players who could become NBA players, 1 wash and a Bullet).
2011: Wayne, Chane, Price, Ware, Nunez (2NBA players? and the book is out on the rest).
Thus far in the Pitino tenure, there have been 5 NBA players wearing Cardinal Red. Not 5 on one team,… and certainly not 9 on one team like his Championship team at Kentucky. There have been years when the recruiting classes were almost total washes other than a solid contributor or two.
Is Rick Pitino a HOF coach? Yes, absolutely. But he has not done, here at UofL, the same things he did at Kentucky because he has not recruited the same level of talent. Has he had some bad luck with recruits and injuries? Yes he has, but if you’re reloading every year then that shouldn’t matter, IMO.
I love where we are right now talent wise, BTW, I really do. I think there is some great talent on this team, if it can ever get/ stay healthy(knock on wood). I think CRP has set this program up very well for another couple of runs at a Final Four/ Championship with the players he’s recruited, circa 2008-2009. I think there are very good things on the horizon.
But the fact that there is only one player who can get himself/ make a shot is no one’s fault but the man making the millions.
But what the hell do I know, right? I mean, it’s not like I can look back at his track record on the recruiting trail. It’s not like I can look back at his NCAA tournament record and see that we’ve only gotten past the first weekend 3x in 11 years.
It’s not like I can’t listen to the Joe B. and Denny show this morning in my office and hear Denny Crum say, with all the confidence in the world, that our offense nothing more than a pick and roll; and, that if you can defend that and stay on the shooters we’re pretty easy to defend.
But what the hell do I know? The same thing that all of CRP’s critics know, that’s what. That he has underperformed in his time here, and that his offense is easy to defend, and if we can’t get out in transition or have a player like Preston! making tough shots were pretty much Royally Fucked when we play a really good team like G-Town/ UK.
If someone wants to defend him to the core then good for them. I can respect someone who is loyal to whomever is running the show with their support.
But not me, if I think you’re doing something wrong, if I think you’re not getting it done, I’m gonna say so. The University of Louisville basketball program is not North Korea. Anyone who wants to be critical of the person leading the way has the right to do so. Especially if they pay good money to go to games, on merchandise, drinks at the games, contributions for season tickets, parking fees, spend their time watching on television, going to games, and in general just love the program.
And they have the right to be critical without being labeled as “Not a true fan” or, a “Chicken Little fan” simply because they don’t hear Rick Pitino say something like “our offense is fine” and say to themselves “yep, our offense is just fine.”
He really pissed me off this week, not because we lost to G-Town or UK; but because he threw Kyle under the bus for not “getting open” and Russ under the bus for “not helping on the boards.” Total BS, if you want Kyle to get open then run some plays to get him open. If you think our leading rebounder in the UK game wasn’t helping us on the boards then you’re obviously getting drunk before you come to your press conferences.
Just own it man, don’t blame the players because you’re “super high-tech, masterful, genius of a system” isn’t working with the personnel that you have. Change the system and make the personnel that you have work more efficiently.
That is all
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by Chick-Stratino'sUrDaddy on Jan 3, 2012 11:29 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
If you think our leading rebounder in the UK game wasn’t helping us on the boards
I explained this twice and I’m pretty sure you saw it. But I’ll say it again anyway.
Being lead rebounder has NOTHING TO DO with what Coach called out. APPLES AND ORANGES. He wants 5 against 5 on the boards, not 4 on 5.
Russ got those rebounds mostly out of long bounce luck, and if it had been 5 on 5 down low we might not have been outrebounded by TWENTY.
Pitino knows more than you ever can hope to.
Is that clear enough for you now??
Yep, I saw it when you posted it before and I see it now. So Russ being the other guy down low with Gorgui would have made all the difference? Does little Russ down there make up for everyone else not?
No, I think not. He specifically called out Russ Smith, he didn’t say "Kyle, Chris, Rak, Swop, Chane, and Siva have didn’t do a good job.
No, he called out the kid who kept us from getting pounded by 20 and had as many rebounds as your 6’11 center and 5* Burger Boy.
I don’t give a dam if he got those 5 rebounds at half court, I think RP was wrong to specifically call him out for not being under the basket and helping Gorgui.
And I’m entitled to feel that way, no matter how much I know or could ever hope to.
BTW I never claimed to have as much knowledge about the game in my entire body as CRP has in his big toe nail. But I can read a box score and watch a game, I can see when one player is the only one on the court who’s not afraid to mix it up and take it right into the chest of the #1 overall pick despite being almost a foot shorter.
And I can definitely identify when some overpaid spin doctor is deflecting the blame for a loss onto the players instead of taking the heat himself and saying “yeah, they were calling it tight and I should’ve told the guys to keep their hands off.” Or, “yeah they were all over Kyle and we couldn’t score, I should’ve tried something different than the same tired ass pick and roll that wasn’t working.”
But you’re right bro, I don’t know shit and you can probably read CRP’s mind; and, with startling accuracy decipher exactly what he means when he’s spinning at the podium and cracking jokes with the media who wash his balls.
Is that clear enough for you now???
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by Chick-Stratino'sUrDaddy on Jan 3, 2012 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah it's clear you don't know what you're talking about.
In fact, YES, Russ being down low would have made a bigger difference because with 5 on 5, UK doesn’t get 20 more rebounds. Why is that so difficult for you to grasp? Box score does not explain what happened, nor what Coach is getting at.
But you apparently think if you fume loud enough it makes you correct.
None of this has anything to do with Russ’ other achievements. Coach praised his scoring ability. We all do. Russ is special and he mixes it up, yes I agree.
BUT he does not help the team rebound and so we got beat on the boards by 20. Boxscore=shit for insight.
My point is simply that Russ didn't desever heat for anything
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by Chick-Stratino'sUrDaddy on Jan 3, 2012 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
It's hard for me to believe that with 9 men 6"5"-6"11" around the rim that there would even be room for a 10th guy
and what about defending the fast break, You can’t send everyone to the rim or you’ll get killed on the break every time you don’t get the rebound.
by Carolina Cardinal on Jan 3, 2012 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
that wouldn't be very much at all
because i’m not claiming to know very much. what i can do however, is accurately listen to someone’s communication and interpret what they’re saying.
PS,.. in the presser he was a coward who called out everyone but himself.
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by Chick-Stratino'sUrDaddy on Jan 3, 2012 1:03 PM EST up reply actions
instead of taking the heat himself and saying "yeah, they were calling it tight and I should’ve told the guys to keep their hands off
and deflate our own defense, which kept UK to its second lowest score this season. Yeah, you know better.
I sure am glad we can all agree that I don't know shit, that's a big wieght off my mind
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by Chick-Stratino'sUrDaddy on Jan 3, 2012 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
I wonder how many points we would've held them to had we not sent them to the line 43 times?
Is it not possible to play defense any other way than to saddle up and ride a guy down the floor when the officials are calling everything a foul?
Is it not possible to stop fouling a guy who is obviously having the game of his life from the stripe?
Is it not even possible a little bit that their 32 made free throws cost us the game just as much as the rebounding margin (which, coincidentally can both be found in the box score?)?
But I’m the one who doesn’t know shit?
But that’s right, “the box score=shit for insight” to you, so no, I guess that anything found there doesn’t really tell us anything at all about why we lost the game. It was all because our two 6ft guards weren’t in there mixing it up with 6’11 Davis, 6’8 Jones, 6’7 MKG, or 6’6 miller.
Had nothing to do with the fact that Chane, Rak, and Gorgui were all in foul trouble and Leary of fouling out. That couldn’t have anything to do with the rebounding margin, could it?Nope, because those things didn’t matter because they’re found in the box score(along with the rebounding numbers).
Losing on the road to UK doesn’t bother me nearly as much as losing at home to G-Town. But none of those things bother me nearly as much as CRP running the same things that aren’t working, calling out the players when he didn’t adjust to what was happening in that game, and the fact that the same issues that have hurt us from game1 are still not corrected in game 14.
Then again, we’ve established that I don’t know anything so what I think shouldn’t matter to you
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by Chick-Stratino'sUrDaddy on Jan 3, 2012 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
Just to be clear, I respect *you*
Just not some of the things you wrote.
Is it not even possible a little bit that their 32 made free throws cost us the game just as much
For example, I read the above and really paused and considered that. It’s a good point.
I respect you and everyone else's opinions here.
I just don’t have any appreciation for people who are critical of CRP being condemned.
I’ve said before, and even in this conversation, that I think Rick has turned a corner in recruiting and has set us up very nicely for the next few years. I just didn’t like the way he shoveled the blame onto the players and took none for himself.
I especially don’t like him patronizing the fans by saying things like “our offense is fine” when everyone can see it’s anemic.
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by Chick-Stratino'sUrDaddy on Jan 4, 2012 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
Chick makes good points
No need to get snotty about it, we are all pissed about last week and Pitino is the captain of the ship and deserves the criticism coming his way.
~~~~~~~~
Go Cards!
by ULcardsfan502 on Jan 3, 2012 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
no one sends five to the offensive board without giving up 20 + points off fast breaks
One or sometimes two players are supposed to hang back to defend the run out.
That actually makes the recruiting look worse than I even remembered it.
It’s pathetic really.
Actually I wish it was
We won the NIT that year and it was a bigger tournament than the NCAA. In fact we turned down the NCAA in favor of the NIT which paid considerably more.
I called CDC Denny and I call HCCS Charlie.
If I met them in person, I’d call them Coach Crum and Coach Strong out of respect. But in talking about them I refer to them by first name out of affection. And I’ll call Coach Pitino Rick for the same reason.
"I am willing to donate to the charity that is working on the prevention of whatever the hell Dick Vitale has." - noobmaster
I don’t think I’m a bad Cards fan for expecting 1 National Championship from a Pitino coached Louisville team in 10 seasons. When he was hired, that’s what I expected. Just 1 title and a couple of final fours in a decade. We have 1 Final Four and no new banner. Its not about beating UK or what UK has, it’s about results in March. As a University of Louisville fan I count Final Fours and NCs, not elite 8s and conference titles.
That and his constant jabbering is getting on my nerves. Call us bad fans if you want but these sentiments growing amoung our fanbase. If the team flames out in the first weekend in March, then this fanbase will be really unhappy, as they should be.
I love this post, but
Please, haters, not to be a jerk BUT SHUT UP. I’m just saying that CC isn’t fun when you just spam the crap out of this site. It’s like every post is “Pitino is an idiot” or “Pitino sucks” or “Pitino can’t coach.”
So please, can we get over ourselves here?
Remember the Beef Bowl!
What's not fun is...
Seeing some Card fans shrug off another loss to pUKe as if it’s ok. IT’S NOT OK!!!!! I wish all these people who think we’re doing well would be the one’s to get a grip. No loss is OK!!!! We should expect greatness in coaching, recruiting, and on the court. If not, why are we even playing? Again, we’re not Podunk Central State- WE’RE LOUISVILLE!
by ruralvillefan on Jan 3, 2012 10:29 AM EST up reply actions
Quite emabressing and awful
To lose to an NBA team, a F4 team, and the best team in the country.
And this team is just awful, so awful, that they’re 12-2. Just terrible and unacceptable.
\
People change their opinions so quickly…
Remember the Beef Bowl!
by HorsePig55 on Jan 3, 2012 4:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Winners shrug off their losses and move on to win the next one.
“It’s not whether you get knocked down, it’s whether you get up.” – Vince Lombardi
"I am willing to donate to the charity that is working on the prevention of whatever the hell Dick Vitale has." - noobmaster
Thank you Finally
I’m so glad to finally hear that from someone. People please remember that our best player is still nursing a shoulder injury, we lost to Kentucky by 7, and people are quik to over analyze things, we lost to a better team, will they still be better in march? Absolutely, will we b playing our best ball at the end of the season? We always do under pitino, yes we have flamed out a little early but each game is different, knowles was our whole team last year and he went down againt a very good morehead team, I honestly still feel as a card fan that this is the year for us, I think we will almost lose half our B.e games but make a strong run to the final four, maybe to lose by one to ky or unc and then hear my fellow Louisville fans Rick haters say,,RICK SHOULD BE FIRED,we got the best coach in the buisness. U guys must be smarter than tom jurich and myself. Go cards
by HaHaSypher on Jan 3, 2012 10:07 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Blackshear?
How do we know he’s our best player? He’s not even stepped on the floor to play yet. I have a ton of hope for this young man & believe he’ll be awesome. But to say “our best player” isn’t playing right now is stretch to say the least.
by ruralvillefan on Jan 3, 2012 10:13 AM EST up reply actions
Blackshear: best player next, yeah maybe.
This year, I would be shocked.
I bleed red and black. I poop blue.
Our best player??
How can you know that when he has played about two minutes?
*when I hear someone under 20 call Pitino "Rick"
20?? I feel that way when I hear someone under 50 call him that. However, most of the venom spewing haters cussing out our offense, our coach, etc I now assume to be between 15-30. WIth youth comes narrow vision, small memory, big talk and microscopic ability to rethink themselves.
Great post JJJ. Me, I’m done trying to share perspective and reason. Some of these guys are beyond it, and most of them will forget or deny they ever said anything negative this spring after we’re in the Final Four again. (Then again, some of them will flame coach for not getting the Title.)
This condescending age talk is bullshit pappy. This is the second or third time I've seen you at it on here. I'm not in the group that's insanely upset about this loss so I have no bones with you there, but seriously that's enough.
Until you’re 120 sitting on a mountain top and people are crawling up to seek your insight, you’re probably less wise than you think and a lot more arrogant.
narrow vision, small memory, big talk and microscopic ability to rethink themselves.
Sounds an awful like the guys over 50 that claimed to be watchdogs of our generation and watched our economy burn. And they were probably all as condescending as you the whole way. Talk about basketball and can the age shit, It’s ridiculous.
by James Sutherland on Jan 3, 2012 1:00 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Stupid economy barb out of left field... wtf??
I’m busy training my 7/8/9 year olds to understand the difference between feeling like adults nag them, and the actual fact that they need to shot their pie hole and listen and learn.
Hmm.
I don’t take orders from you, and don’t GAFF that you think it condescending. When youi’re my age, you will see it for yourself.
It's a barb that being a certain age doesn't guarantee any specific knowledge.
Nobody is on this site to shut their pie holes and “learn” from you. You are being a condescending dick whether you think so or not. So for all this talk about shutting up and taking in what’s going on around you, all you are interested in is pounding in that you’re old and wise and people younger than you should just not speak, because they are simply wrong no matter what.
When youi’re my age, you will see it for yourself.
You. Are. Absolutely. Absurd.
by James Sutherland on Jan 4, 2012 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
You're right
There is a point to be made about discourse , however that last by me was very poorly written, because I most certainly do not mean to suggest you or anyone here should shut up and learn from me. (I confessed earlier I don’t know much about basketball.)
Upon further review, I see how the above, combined with what I posted earlier, came off all the more badly.
So, I agree my poor choices of wording sound condescending and apologize for any offense caused.
I'm 31, so I guess my narrow vision doesn't allow me to realize that a box score doesn't mean anything
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by Chick-Stratino'sUrDaddy on Jan 3, 2012 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
I'm 67 and say Rick
And I do not for a moment believe he is the Supreme Being. He is a good coach, a Hall of Fame coach, but he is wearing a little thin on some people. And we have the right to say so. Disagree with us if you wish but never, ever question the right of anyone to free speech.
You guys just don't know when to stop, do ya.
Find one single sentence from me that questions anyone’s right to free speech.
All you’ll find is a reminder of my miiltary service defending that right.
You’re welcome. Glad to see you using your right.
NOW MAKE SURE YOU DON’T TELL ME I HAVE NO RIGHT OR WHEN TO CAN IT.
my question is
What makes Louisville fans think we deserve better?, we have the top ad in college sports, my opinion the top head coach, the top arena in the country, a bigger athletic budget than Kentucky, and one of the top revenue producing basketball teams in the country,, I’m sorry but we don’t deserve pitino, thank god for horse racing..guys the recruiting has gotten better every year, its a lot easier to recruit when your at a nationally recognized power like unc ky, Kansas etc,,,it takes time,,and u wanna know what else,,u know what the struggles of blackshear ,ware and behannon mean to me? Returning sophmores. My suggestion this year,,,run everything through dieng! Win or lose, this guy is the truth
by HaHaSypher on Jan 3, 2012 10:17 AM EST via mobile reply actions
UL opponents' RPI
This is for the non haters. If you need to hate on this, then just bite me.
6 UK 9 Georgetown 13 UL 14 Long Beach 31 Vandy 37 Ohio 38 Memphis 45 Lamar 57 Charleston
What about...
….68 points against # 53 Lamar (we must be looking at different RPI sites), 59 against # 61 Ohio, 54 against # 156 Arkansas State, 70 against # 236 WKU?
should have clarified
Blackshear is the best player on the team offensively, pitino can teach hellen Keller to play defense so I’m not worried about that. We need hungry scorers like Russ and blackshear,,to question that is absurd,,rivalas picked Anthony Davis to be the best player in the country before the year and I haven’t heard anyone mention otherwise, let’s not forget Blackshear was Mr basketball in Chicago, where is Davis from?
by HaHaSypher on Jan 3, 2012 10:22 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Nice post JJJ
Last year’s team was the most inspiring one in a long time. I know it made Coach Pitino happy to have such a fine group of guys. This year they got off to a great start. I won’t worry until we get blown out on the road in the Big East. There are plenty of games left to work on the problems with shooting. Quoting the HHGG “Don’t Panic”.
Go Cards!
Lets face it
As Louisville fans we are going to judge the season based on the outcome of the UK game and NCAA tournament. If people want to say you cant judge the UK game because Pitino teams are always better in March….. fine, however you have to set some type of measuring stick and that stick is the NCAA tournament.
When Pitino took over most expected success like what he had at UK. Well that has not happened and people are starting to get a little anxious. When you are the highest paid coach in the country at a top 10 program it just comes with the territory. People should and will expect results. I know hes had some mishaps regarding injuries / recruiting that were not necessarily his fault but ultimately hes still responsible. People may say thats unfair, but as we all know life is not fair. I relate his position as being similar to the VP of a company. If said VP doesn’t get a measured performance out of his guys you can bet hes getting replaced.
I personally feel we should see what happens this March. Pitino squads are typically ready to go in March which means we could possibly see a deep EE or final 4 run. If that happens I think we then see what happens the following year. We could easily see ourselves back on track. If not it may be time to start looking for new blood.
I really feel we need a deep run this year and next for the sake of fan and team moral, as well as future recruiting. Recruits now days have the attention span of gnats and none of them remember the days when LVL was on top. Regardless if they are or are not first round potential picks they all want to go to a winning program. As CS5 said “winning gets you where you want to go” Early exits and repeated losses to your rival do not.
"Winning gets you where you want to go"
-CS5-
You don't speak for all Louisville fans
You’re being a bit presumptuous when you say “As Louisville fans we are going to judge….”
I am a Louisville fan and I don’t judge the season on the outcome of one rivalry game and a single-elimiation tournament. Last year’s team was 0-2 in the Kentucky game and the NCAAT, but they were and will remain one of my favorite Cardinal teams ever – and I recall every one of Denny Crum’s Final Four teams.
When Pitino was hired, my response was “if Crum has to go, Pitino is the only guy to replace him.” I didn’t expect him to wave a magic wand and make national championships materialize. Nobody can guarantee wins. Pitino has brought us an entertaining style of basketball and some highly respected teams. I’m proud of my Cardinals and proud of our coach.
"I am willing to donate to the charity that is working on the prevention of whatever the hell Dick Vitale has." - noobmaster
I stand corrected as I should not group ALL LVL fans into a single group.
A mistake on my part.
I however still feel that most fans are gonna judge a coaches success based on the facts that I posted above. Now im not saying its based on a single season, but over the course of the coaches entire history here.
"Winning gets you where you want to go"
-CS5-
i just wanna throw something out there
What if coach pitino took us to 3 final fours during his time here and missed the tournament the rest. The fact of the matter is, he’s put a quality product out on that court almost every year and we can get behind and root for
by itsALLintheCARDS on Jan 3, 2012 12:27 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Not specific enough
If they were 3 FFs and nothing more, I suspect most of us wouldn’t be any more happy than we are today.
If there was one championship among those 3 FFs, then we’d be happy (but still grousing a lot in the NIT years.)
Bottom line, fans want quality and long tournament runs — me included — not one or the other.
From my own posts this may not be clear: I am not pleased with CRP’s UL career results. Not at all. And if the Cards were to go downhill this year or flameout early, I would become highly critical of him. I think his recruiting should have been much better all along, which would have wrought better results.
That said, I happen to believe this year is going to be very positively different for UL, and much of it will be due directly to CRP’s expertise.
I agree recruiting was kinda suspect for a few years.
Which is another reason I feel the UK rivalry is so important. I understand we are not gonna get every player we go head to head against UK for. We should however expect to get some. Do we think that UK doesnt use the fact that they have owned LVL over the last several years as a tool when That combined with the early NCAA flamouts is a hard thing to overcome.
I also agree that I have a good feeling about this team. As guys get in better health and the offence starts to flow things should be full steam ahead.
"Winning gets you where you want to go"
-CS5-
I would think thats nearly impossible so kinda hard to even visualize.
"Winning gets you where you want to go"
-CS5-
I’m very happy to see that this post sparked discussion
I want to make it clear that I’m not questioning anyone’s fanhood. That’s not my place. We all do it in different ways, and we’re all incredibly passionate. One thing we can all agree on is that pitino criticism gets louder when UL loses and pitino praise gets louder when UL wins. From my perspective, the "past-the-first-weekend" fans have been drowning everyone else out since the Georgetown loss. From reading these comments, it seems that they would disagree.
Here’s my pitch for why everyone should think like me (and notice it has nothing to do with Pitino’s performance):
1) Being disappointed with Pitino all the time feels lousy. Being a fan is supposed to be fun. We all have serious shit in our lives. We do things that matter. We go to work, we pursue relationships, we raise kids. We do things that have serious consequences based on whether or not we’re successful. Sports is the distraction. I was recently asked to list the most important things in my life as part of some lame orientation thing. My list: 1) Family, 2) Work, 3) Louisville basketball, 4) my mental and physical health. Rooting for this team is super important to me. But, when it gets to the point where you’re feeling awful about it all the time, I say move on to #4.
2) Being disappointed with Pitino isn’t going to get him fired. If you were tom jurich, you’d have to take a long hard look at it. But, you’re not. You’re a fan. Your job isn’t to evaluate the coach. The decision you make in your head isn’t going to impact what Jurich decides to do one way or the other. Unless you’re scorpiocard, who has a key to the super-secret-boosters-only bathroom in the YUM Center attic, which I’m told has gold-plated toilet seats.
3) Believing that Pitino is a bad coach/recruiter/moralist introduces conflict into your life that you don’t need. Like it or not (and don’t take this as me questioning fanhood), a part of you feels good when UL loses because you’re right about pitino. And you love UL! And nothing sucks more than UL losing! And yet part of it feels good. This is human nature, and if you think it doesn’t happen to you you’re kidding yourself. How many republicans are secretly happy the economy continues to suck ass because they were right? That’s some heavy shit you don’t need in your life.
You may be thinking, "but, its true that Pitino has underperformed. Why should I feed myself this optimistic garbage?" I say, what is truth? Do we get it from analyzing a few important games a year, the whole year, just the Big East, the stars next to recruits names, the size of former players nba contracts, the opinions of UK fans or the talking heads on ESPN, CBSSports, or SI.com? Because, when you look at these different things, you get different answers. And you know what? When logical people disagree about something, chances are the truth is somewhere in the middle.
by johnnyjoejohnson on Jan 3, 2012 2:04 PM EST reply actions
I totally agree that when people have different opinions the truth typically lies in the middle!!!
I however disagree that being disappointed in Pitino causes people to not enjoy sports. Granted im sure some people cant separate life from sports, I just don’t feel it’s the majority.
If or when it starts to become the majority, you will start seeing attendance at the Yum center drop as it did during the end of the Crum era.
"Winning gets you where you want to go"
-CS5-
Or they will start throwing boogers....
"Winning gets you where you want to go"
-CS5-
Unless you’re scorpiocard, who has a key to the super-secret-boosters-only bathroom in the YUM Center attic, which I’m told has gold-plated toilet seats.
I understand Scorpiocard went to a big to-do for the boosters that included performances by the pep band and the ladybirds, a speech by Coach Pitino, a showing of VillenHD videos, and an open bar.
A week later, he was bragging to a friend about the royal treatment he had gotten, and was describing the hors d’ouvre, the steamship round, the french desserts, all the ways that UofL had rolled out the red carpet for him… but his friend was skeptical when he got to the part about the toilet seats.
Scorp took his friend to the Athletic Office and told the receptionist “I am a very important and influential booster, and I have a bet with this gentleman. Please tell him about the reception last week, with particular emphasis on the gold-plated toilet seats.”
The receptionist didn’t bat an eye. She just picked up the phone and called the director of the pep band. “Hey,” she told him, “I think I found that drunken booster who took a dump in the tuba.”
"I am willing to donate to the charity that is working on the prevention of whatever the hell Dick Vitale has." - noobmaster
by rickmbari on Jan 3, 2012 5:41 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
That's so messed up, funny,.... but messed up bro
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by Chick-Stratino'sUrDaddy on Jan 3, 2012 6:22 PM EST up reply actions
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