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By The Numbers: Louisville Penalties

Penalties have been a hot topic at Louisville ever since: ____________ (Hint: When we stopped winning games). After compiling nine more infractions at North Carolina on Saturday afternoon, the Cardinals will likely move from seventh worst into the bottom five in FBS penalties committed per game at the end of week six.

The following is meant to be an objective collection of data to add to the discussion; feel free to draw your own conclusions.

Charlie Strong:

2011: Louisville (2-3) has the second youngest FBS team and is currently averaging 8.6 penalties per game (Sagarin* SOS: 139)
2010: Louisville (7-6) had the second oldest FBS team and averaged 7.9 penalties per game (SOS: 75)

Tenure average: 8.25 penalties per game; SOS average: 107

Steve Kragthorpe:

2009: Louisville (4-8) averaged 6.5 penalties per game (SOS: 25)
2008: Louisville (5-7) averaged 6.25 penalties per game (SOS: 81)
2007: Louisville (6-6) returns 85% of Orange Bowl champion team, averaged 7.75 penalties per game (SOS: 51)

Tenure average: 6.8 penalties per game; SOS average: 52

Bobby Petrino:

2006: Louisville's (12-1) Orange Bowl (Wake Forest) champs averaged 5 penalties per game (SOS: 27)
2005: Louisville's (9-3) Gator Bowl team (VTech) averaged 7 penalties per game (SOS: 68)
2004: Louisville's (11-1) Liberty Bowl champs (Boise State) averaged 5.6 penalties per game (SOS: 82)
2003: Louisville's (9-4) GMAC Bowl team (Miami, OH) averaged 7.5 penalties per game (SOS: 104)

Tenure average: 6.2 penalties per game; SOS average: 70

John L. Smith:

2002: Louisville's (7-6) GMAC Bowl team averaged 10.3 (!) penalties per game (SOS: 74)
2001: Louisville's (11-2) Liberty Bowl champs (BYU) averaged 8 penalties per game (SOS: 84)
2000: Louisville's (9-3) Liberty Bowl team (Colorado State)averaged 10.1 penalties per game (SOS: 85)
1999: Louisville's (7-5) Humanitarian Bowl team (Boise State) averaged 10.75 (!) penalties per game (SOS: 75)
*1998 data unavailable from uoflsports.com

Tenure average: 9.8 penalties per game; SOS average: 79

 

*SOS (Strength of schedule) stats, compiled by Jeff Sagarin for USA Today, account for all 246 FBS & FCS football team schedules. The SOS' are included here b/c Sagarin is widely considered the most popular computer ranking of the six that feed into the BCS formula and I think level of competition plays a factor. One could argue against this point but I think there's some validity there.

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Obvioulsy we need to fire the world.

Clam down everybody.

And stop blaming coaches, whether they are still here or not.

We are young. We are rebuilding. We KNEW THIS!!!!!!!!!!!! REMEMBER???

Show up. (ON TIME!!!!!) SUPPORT THE TEAM! Or be lame.

Your choice.

GO CARDS!!!!!!

by scorpiocard on Oct 8, 2011 8:33 PM EDT reply actions  

Not sayin you said that.

Been a lot of silly head hunters around though.

Maybe they got their wish. Did it work?

I saw a draw play on 1st and 20.

We’ll be ok. Once they mature our youngsters will be a force to be reckonded with.

by scorpiocard on Oct 8, 2011 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gotcha; if you listen to Strong's video on the main page

It sounds like there’s a good chance Watson will continue calling the plays. Strong cited improved tempo for the QB as the major difference between the past (Sanford) and this week (Watson).

by UL is my hot hot sex on Oct 8, 2011 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

He said Watson may

Its Charlie’s call, and I have confindence it will be the right one.

Helps when the line shows up and blocks, and they did today. Not last week.

Still almost got shut out. Broke down in the red zone like before.

Coaches can only do so much.

We have youngsters playing.

Cheer them on!

by scorpiocard on Oct 8, 2011 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

He said Watson will.

"...and the present, for us, is something that we really look forward to."
- Rick Pitino

by rickmbari on Oct 9, 2011 7:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

Eh.

I don’t think that anyone’s saying that. But I will say that there are some problems that you could definitely make a strong case for it being the coaches’ fault.

Penalties
Lack of fire (no pun intended)
Regression by Upperclassmen
Poor fundamentals
And the big one….
Lack of progress

"Morgan Newton sucks!"
- Victor Anderson

by HorsePig55 on Oct 8, 2011 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Does anyone know if they did the lock-in this year?

If not, they need to do one every year from now on.

by 4ul4life on Oct 9, 2011 2:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

When comparing each subset, the most important stat not listed is scoring offense

It’s easier to absorb penalties when your team is putting up 40 points a game, but in a power-running defensive-minded system like Strong’s (euphemism for low scoring?), overcoming them is much tougher.

by UL is my hot hot sex on Oct 8, 2011 8:42 PM EDT reply actions  

And it's not like there's a good time for a penalty

But it seems like this team picks out the most inopportune time to commit them. How many drives have offensive penalties killed? How many defensive penalties have kept drives alive? Both of UK’s touchdown drives were sustained by penalties.

by loverofthegame on Oct 8, 2011 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who says he wants to score less?

Since you are into stats, you may want to go back and look at the run/pass ratio when Petrino was HC.

Get back to me when you get a dose of that reality.

by scorpiocard on Oct 8, 2011 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nobody said he wants to score less. Petrino's run/pass ratio is irrelevant, this isn't Petrino's offense or roster.

Louisville is currently averaging 16 points per game against Murray State, FIU, UK, Marshall & UNC. The run/pass ratio is 60/40 in favor of running this season, while averaging <3 yards per rush. That’s reality.

by UL is my hot hot sex on Oct 8, 2011 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I lol'ed

"...and the present, for us, is something that we really look forward to."
- Rick Pitino

by rickmbari on Oct 9, 2011 7:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'd like to see this analysis but with only holding penaltys.

I really feel like all the holding penalties are just do to lack of skill. When you get beat the temptation is to hold. The false starts are plain lack of dicipline.

How many of our penalties this year are holding? How many penalties total?

-Dustin

by Civicman86 on Oct 8, 2011 9:13 PM EDT reply actions  

Our O line is

A) Veteran and not at all talented. (zero to two star krap recruits)

B) Young and physically and mentally immature.

We knew this. It is not a surprise.

We are not delusional uk fans…are we?

by scorpiocard on Oct 8, 2011 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

But...

These guys just lack any sort of competitive fire. It’s like if they lose a step on someone or get slightly beat out of their stance then they let the defender go.

Anyway, there are GOOD players on the oline (Mario, Kupper) who appear to have gotten worse (like many players actually) than before. This is the most troubling thing to me.

"Morgan Newton sucks!"
- Victor Anderson

by HorsePig55 on Oct 8, 2011 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mario was distracted by having to tell the right guard which way to block on every play

because they moved a defensive lineman to offense to try to shore up the O line, which we’ve all recognized as our weakness from day one. This will improve over the coming weeks.

"...and the present, for us, is something that we really look forward to."
- Rick Pitino

by rickmbari on Oct 9, 2011 7:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sadly I think there are some delusional's.

I have been saying since game one that the o-line is going to be a big issue this year. I just wondered if the penalties also pointed to this same fact.

-Dustin

by Civicman86 on Oct 9, 2011 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

of course

A high % of our penalties are on the O-Line

by cbcard on Oct 9, 2011 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

The saving grace this season is that the majority of penalties are not procedure penalties.

These were notorious for Krag. Twelve men in the huddle, illegal substitutions, sideline interference (remember that one?). Most of the penalties this season have been holding, offsides, etc. But you also have to look at penalty yards. I would be very interested to see those stats. And it’s also interesting to see that Strong is averaging almost 1.5 more penalties per game since he’s been here than Kragthorpe (even with a veteran team last year made up of mostly “Krag’s guys”), and that was one of the major complaints against Krag. Of course, we also had an illegal substitution penalty after a timeout on a critical 4th down today.

A lot of you guys are quick to throw out the “UK fan” insult, but I think you’re missing our point (at least mine). I don’t want to see anybody fired. I still think Strong can turn it around, and I still have faith that we will get better. It’s already good to see that we have a lot of good offensive linemen signed in next year’s class, and there’s no question that we’re getting some good talent here. But it’s a shame to see the lack of discipline and the apparent lack of preparation on our part, especially on the offensive side of the ball. Those are the things that you want to always have right, talent or no, because it’s far easier to plug talent into a disciplined team and get better than it is to plug it into an undisciplined team and get better. Especially when it’s young talent.

As I said in the other thread, I don’t think the sky is falling, but that doesn’t mean I have to wait until a chunk lands on my head before I start expressing concern about the cracks in the clouds. I knew Charlie had an uphill climb when he got here, and I was afraid, given our large junior and senior classes in year 1, that it would take longer than the 2-3 years that everyone was hoping for. But I always said that I would be fine taking our lumps for a few more years as long as our team played passionately and executed well, and that, unfortunately, has not been the case for most of the five games so far this season.

by CARD_G6 on Oct 8, 2011 9:46 PM EDT reply actions  

Yep, would take a little longer to collect that data (I've got stuff to do later)

And agree with all of your comments. Calling us UK fans is more “UK fan” than anything you or I have said. Nobody is suggesting Strong is a bad coach or needs to be fired or anything irrational like that. I think some of the blame should go on the coaching staff. They’re smart, they know that, and Strong said as much after the Marshall loss. We’re not “bagging Krag” on Strong here, just saying 9 penalties per game isn’t Krags fault and/or b/c we have a lot of freshmen. Things will get better.

by UL is my hot hot sex on Oct 8, 2011 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Nobody is suggesting Strong is a bad coach or needs to be fired or anything irrational like that. I think some of the blame should go on the coaching staff.

I beg to differ. At least one commenter said he was losing faith in HCCS.

"...and the present, for us, is something that we really look forward to."
- Rick Pitino

by rickmbari on Oct 9, 2011 7:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

That was me.

And no, I’m not suggesting that he should be fired in any way shape or form. But what I am saying is that he’s not going to be a ble to turn this ship around and win 10 games next year. Some of the problems on the team aren’t youth, aren’t Kragthorpe, aren’t freshman, and aren’t talent.

"Morgan Newton sucks!"
- Victor Anderson

by HorsePig55 on Oct 9, 2011 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

Is everyone still affected by Bag Krag-itis?

Criticism doesn’t = our coaches suck & should be fired. It’s just criticism.

by UL is my hot hot sex on Oct 9, 2011 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

THANK YOU.

The program isn’t exactly rainbows and bunnies at this point.

"Morgan Newton sucks!"
- Victor Anderson

by HorsePig55 on Oct 9, 2011 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

I did call people out yesterday for acting like UK fans....

But i felt like I made the distinction that I felt that rational arguments and constructive critisism was ok. I was calling out all the comments that talked about how much the team or coaching staff sucked without actually making rational arguments. It just seemed that many people were making comments that we ussually make fun of UK fans for.
If you feel like I called you out I’m sorry. I feel like people who back up their arguments with real facts are good fans even if I do not nessasarily like their oppinion.
Also sorry for my spelling, my android phone is acting up.

by BetaCard466 on Oct 9, 2011 10:12 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Nice post

I agree with you that scoring average plays a huge part in how penalties effect a team. Things are far from terrible or anything like that. It’s just a different type of team. Were not going to put up petrino-type numbers this year, therefore the penalties hurt much more. The defense will continue to give us a chance, we just need to capitalize on offense.

by gocardsguy on Oct 8, 2011 9:47 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Only one crIticism...

You should have said “hot hot topic.”

ALL HAIL

by Cardinal_Pride on Oct 9, 2011 12:15 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

These penalties are so much harder to take

when you consider that we’ve lost 3 games by a total of 18 points and our defense is #15 in the nation in points allowed. Take away half those penalties at crucial times and it’s fair to say we’d score more and lose less. If we were getting blown out I wouldn’t probably notice the penalties that much because we’d have bigger fish to fry. But when you lose so many close games, it’s exactly things like excessive penalties that factor heavily into the mix. And it’s fixable. The coaches should pick their battles here and if the OL is as good as it’s going to be this year, then make the best of it but work really hard on eliminating penalties. Make that a major goal and let the chips fall where they will. That’s my armchair coach call for today.

by CardsRuleBE on Oct 9, 2011 8:14 AM EDT reply actions  

If the O-line is bad, you're going to get more holding penalties.

Holds happen because the defender gets by a block. When the blocking in the trenches is as bad as it’s been, you can expect holding penalties.

"...and the present, for us, is something that we really look forward to."
- Rick Pitino

by rickmbari on Oct 9, 2011 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes

That’s a good point. And you know, when you think about the future, it’s exciting to realize that even with an offense struggling this much to score, we’re still only barely losing every time we do lose. Imagine the joy of watching a Louisville defense hold opponents to an avg. of 16 points like right now while the offense is scoring in the 30’s on a regular basis. I guess I’m trying to find a silver lining in all of this, and that’s what I’ve come up with… In a year or two at most, you know a Strong/Bedford defense will keep doing this kind of stellar job every week, but we’ll also have a solid offense. We’ll win a lot of games. So the silver lining = we’re halfway there right now! Defense…. check. Offense… soon to be a check.

by CardsRuleBE on Oct 9, 2011 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like this team.

Well at least their potential.

by Cardfan63 on Oct 9, 2011 8:49 AM EDT reply actions  

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