Teddy Bridgewater and Will Stein: Potential vs. Momentum
by Chick-Stratino'sUrDaddy on Oct 14, 2011 1:20 PM EDT
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PrintImmediately following the Murray State game there was an out pouring of criticism for Will Stein, and a clamoring for Teddy Bridgewater to replace him as the starter. At this point in the season the two signal callers have thrown nearly the same amount of passes, and the numbers don't lie. At least in terms of who gives us the better chance to win games for right now.
- Teddy has completed 51 passes on 80 attempts. Will has completed 49 passes on 79 attempts. Their completion percentages are almost identical making this statistic a push.
- Teddy has thrown 4 Touchdowns and 4 interceptions. Will has thrown 5 Touchdowns and 1 interception. That's a pretty big difference for an offense that has all kinds of problems running the ball and moving the chains. This statistic speaks to the youth and inexperience of TB-5 more than anything else, but it also illustrates that Sunny Will has the experience needed to be a better decision maker than Teddy, for now anyway.
- Teddy has taken 10 sacks to Will's 8; this is more indicative of poor play on the offensive line than anything else.
I realize that Teddy is the future, I realize that Teddy played lights out at Kentucky, I realize that Teddy is taller (silly argument IMO), but I also realize that he is a true freshman playing behind an offensive line that is struggling mightily. I will put it to you in the poll below; but, I've come to the conclusion that the majority of the snaps should go to Will unless it becomes a mathematical impossibility for us to return to a bowl game this year.
I believe that Teddy should continue to see the field, but in a limited capacity. This situation reminds me Brian Brohm's freshman year. I know-I know,... Will Stein is not Stefan LeFlors; but, he is the more experienced QB with a better grasp on the offense than the freshman incumbent. In 2004 Brian played as a true freshman, and he played because it was clear that he was the future; but, it was also crystal clear that Stefan was the starter and for good reason. Why? Because he gave us the best chance to win, and continuing the momentum that had been built up until that point was important. Bobby Petrino realized that. Which is exactly why the more experienced signal caller put the ball up 257 times in 2004 while the true freshman was limited to a mere 98 attempts.
- That's 72% of the throws for the shorter/ more experienced QB with the lower ceiling, to 28% for the taller/ less experienced QB with the NFL ceiling.
I think it's pretty obvious that the (fancy?) gap between Will and Teddy isn't nearly as dramatic as it was between Stefan and Brian; but, the fact remains that experience and sound judgment are more important than height and potential. I'm Willing to bet that Charlie Strong feels the same way, and that Stein will soon be taking the bulk of the snaps just like he was before the injury. It won't be a popular decision among some, especially if we don't start winning games; but, it will be the right decision for the future of this program. Especially if we do start winning games and get back to a bowl this year.
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Sunny Will
It was his job until he got hurt. He left the UK game with the lead. He’d earned the job in Fall Camp. When he’s 100% he gets the start. I have no doubt in my mind of that. That’s the kind of guy Strong is. But I do think they’ll be closer to 50-50 total snaps as the year wears on. This team is not likely to be bowl bound. The 2 losses to non-AQ teams probably sealed their fate. So I think you use 2 QB’s since both of them will be back next year (people forget Will’s only a Junior). Let the OL mature without risking one of those guys all of the time. That’s a lot of sacks and hits to take for one guy, right? Split that risk up this year since our OL sucks ass.
Early losses don't seem to weigh as heavily as late wins
If we were to miraculously turn this around and wind up 7-5, we’d go bowling. At 6-6 it depends on who else is eligible.
"...and the present, for us, is something that we really look forward to."
- Rick Pitino
Yeah it's possible
With our defense, we can go 4-3 or 5-2 in league play if the offense starts putting up anything in the 20’s on a regular basis. I don’t think we can beat WVU in their house this year, and I don’t see us beating USF in Tampa, either. But the other games are winnable – if (IF!) the offense can get unstuck. Never say never, but it looks very unlikely as of right now.
Disagree entirely
1. Height matters. Vision is vital.
2. Will played against nobodies. Bridgewater has missed DeVante,
3. Decision making: Teddy had a pick after a facemask-shouldn’t have thrown it but shouldn’t have counted either- 15 yards means the offense changes that close to the end zone. He threw two picks trying to press against Marshall-yeah he’s a freshman would you rather him make those mistakes this year or next year when we should markedly improve? Will’s pick was a awful pick-6.
4. Teddy moves better. Teddy throws the ball better, once he stretches the field and they open the offense this debate ends. I look for that to occur this week win or loss. We will begin to score more than 20 the minute we spread the field and stop giving our line a chance to suck.
maybe i am wrong
but go cards
I hope you're right, god I hope you're right....
Fool's names are like their faces, often seen in public places.
by Chick-Stratino'sUrDaddy on Oct 14, 2011 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Even though I voted for Will in the poll
I actually agree with this post. Height does matter, just maybe not as much as some think. Will does have better stats (TD to INT ratio specifically), but as you say it was against lesser teams. Teddy’s had to play from behind and that typically increases INT’s, even for veteran QB’s. And I agree that if Watson and Strong open up the offense more and stop trying to force the run when it’s not there, Teddy will blossom. But you know what? So will Stein. He might not have the deep ball arm Teddy has, but Will is very accurate on short and medium routes. The reason I voted for Will is because I think that’s what Strong will do – return to starting Stein once he’s 100%. I just think instead of seeing Teddy for a couple of series, it’s more like we’ll see close to a 50/50 split on snaps.
Well that's true
He is – I believe – the shortest starter in the NFL. But he is 6’ – not exactly a short dude like Stein.
Will Stein
1. He’s not Drew Brees.
2. Hernandez is not a Saints lineman.
by James Sutherland on Oct 14, 2011 2:31 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
He doesn't have to be Drew Brees or Doug Flutie.
Nobody is predicting Will as an NFL starter. The point is that height isn’t the be-all and end-all.
"...and the present, for us, is something that we really look forward to."
- Rick Pitino
by rickmbari on Oct 14, 2011 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
But unfortunately, a very short QB enjoying consistent success is definitely the exception
and I’m just not sold that Will is the best option. I mean, there’s short… and then there’s Will Stein. Love the kid’s pride and competitiveness though.
Peace. Love. Cards.
by quiet cardinal on Oct 14, 2011 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I voted for
Will. I agree with the post with the exception to the following, “I’m Willing to bet that Charlie Strong feels the same way, and that Stein will soon be taking the bulk of the snaps just like he was before the injury.” I think Coach Strong is all in with TB-5. I do not understand ‘playing for the future.’ Bullshit I say. You play to win. Period. Practice is for the future. If you win more games and go to a bowl you get, you guessed it, more practice!
I voted for 50-50
You play to win, yes. But the chief disagreement between Sanford and Strong/Watson was supposedly over how fast to bring Teddy along. He has shown he can move the team downfield.
"...and the present, for us, is something that we really look forward to."
- Rick Pitino
At least I mentioned a Brohm
Fool's names are like their faces, often seen in public places.
by Chick-Stratino'sUrDaddy on Oct 14, 2011 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
This shouldn't even be a discussion
I don’t recall Will making extraordinarily good decisions. He fumbled balls, presumably due to small hands. He threw a pick-6 when driving. He threw a second forward pass. Furthermore, he cannot see the middle of the field – and that was against Murray St. and FIU. What do you think Pitt and USF and WVU’s d-lines are going to look like?
Teddy is not only the future, but the now. He is showing improvement each game. Why stifle it?
I'm not much for the duct tape fix approach. That's why I'm thinking Teddy.
I look at the rest of the schedule and a bowl game seems improbable. I’m fine with that. I was prepared by the coaching staff before the season for that and honestly, i’m really enjoying watching Teddy grow a little each game. Being behind a inexperienced and undertalented O line will make him a better quarterback. It’s crappy but who hasn’t had to learn a skill on-the-job under less than ideal conditions? I guess I just remember being at the Murray State game and watchiing Will miss so many freaking opportunities downfield while rolling out to see past the line of scrimmage.
As the O-line grows into their positions, so will TB and going into next year, they’ll know each other intimately. That is a thrilling prospect.
And for that, I’m willing to wait to open my presents after church in the morning instead of Christmas eve like every other kid.
Everyone keeps mentioning ther Murray State game like it was Will's 4th-5th game as a starter.
Keep in mind that was his first game as the QB of THIS team, with these receivers, and with this line.
He did throw the pick6 against FIU but he also completed 70% of his passes, threw for 350, 2 TDs, and looked pretty darn good doing it in his 2nd outing. It seemed like he was starting to get comfortable and that his timing/ rythm with the recievers was finally there.
He left the UK game with the lead. Marshall wasn’t any better than FIU, probably worse, and Teddy didn’t go for 350 and 2 TDs against them.
I’m as excited as anyone about Teddy, but I think Will gives us the best chance to win right now. How many of you wouldn’t have loved to have a healthy/ experienced/ comfortable in the offense William “Sunny” Stein in the Marshall game when they were blitzing on every freaking down?
Fool's names are like their faces, often seen in public places.
by Chick-Stratino'sUrDaddy on Oct 14, 2011 3:42 PM EDT reply actions
Chick, I never questioned Will's throwing ability, just his field vision.
I mean, I can’t remember a single throw he’s made up the gut or to the opposite side, can you? What’s the use of having several talented receivers when you only need one…the one on the side Will’s rolling out to? I swear to god, during the Murray game, i kept waiting for him to do that “jump on your tippy toes” thing short kids in the back of a crowd do, trying to see what all the commotion up front is.
I guess it comes down to a Cadillac vs. Prius. Both have their strengths and weaknesses.
Lol
Fool's names are like their faces, often seen in public places.
by Chick-Stratino'sUrDaddy on Oct 14, 2011 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Teddy
It’s not gonna do us any good to have our young guys sit on the bench at this point. If we were a bowl team, I would say yea to Will.
"Morgan Newton sucks!"
- Victor Anderson
Great post
There are two distinct camps in this fan base: 1) Those who buy into the Teddy 5-star recruit hype & want to “build on the future” and 2) those who share the “Will is more experienced & gives us the best chance to win” opinion.
From what I’ve seen, it’s typical for each camp, myself included, to have made up their mind about their guy being the guy by this point in the season. They will find and use any argument against the other camp’s guy while minimizing the glaring errors of their guy. You say Teddy is “the future” and Stein is “too short”. I say Teddy is still learning, might get seriously injured behind a porous OL and Stein is “experienced” and knows the offense better.
Both Teddy & Will have faults. One key decision and one public statement were made on this issue that stand out to me. Will won the job in the preseason and Strong said Will wouldn’t lose the job due to injury. Strong made that public and he should stick by it. Or at least explain why he changed his mind if Stein doesn’t start once he’s 100% healthy. Does he owe that to Will? Maybe. He owes it to the team to show that he sticks by his word and that leadership means something. Winning your job in the preseason and hard work mean something.
I’ve got feet in both camps. I’d like to see Will start & then bring in Teddy with more of a hurry-up look sometime in the 2nd quarter and go from there. Will Stein shouldn’t have to earn his starting job back. Make him earn the demotion to back-up. Teddy hasn’t shown that he gives the team a clear-cut better chance to win. Until bowl eligibility is out the question, I think Stein should start.
by UL is my hot hot sex on Oct 14, 2011 4:42 PM EDT reply actions
I'm not in either camp...
I’m in the “Teddy gives us the best chance to win this year” camp. The numbers are what they are. But I’m not going to use them to gloss over the fact that Will didn’t really make stellar decisions during his first 2 games. Plus, he can’t see the field. He clearly could not see the field from the pocket against Murray St. and FIU, and the defenses are not getting any smaller.
by LouisDBrandeis on Oct 14, 2011 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
If you're ignoring stats & arguing that Will clearly can't see the field, then you're using mostly opinion, right?
I think you are more Camp Teddy than you want to admit. And that’s ok.
by UL is my hot hot sex on Oct 14, 2011 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I think this game shows I'm right.
Will makes bad decisions. He did it earlynthis year and he continues to do it today. Teddy is a better QB today – not just in the future.
The two-camp argument is stupid. And that’s ok.
by LouisDBrandeis on Oct 15, 2011 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
How could you even think that you're point was proven? Will played 2 series?
One when they started on their own 1 yard line, and another when the game was all but over and they were going into the wind.
You also seem to be slightly exaggerating Teddy’s performance today. No TDs, 1 pick
Fool's names are like their faces, often seen in public places.
by Chick-Stratino'sUrDaddy on Oct 15, 2011 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Not sure how anyone can definitively say either QB gives the team a better chance to win
If you like Teddy, you’ll only see the positive things he does and downplay any negative and vice versa for Stein. Neither QB is marching this team 99 yards down the field against a good defense with the way our OL has been playing in the 2nd half. Add in the fact that the Cards don’t have a running game after the 1st quarter. Hard to give either QB a grade other than “Incomplete” b/c they’re not getting much help.
by UL is my hot hot sex on Oct 15, 2011 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Agree and I have leaned a little to Stein because of his experience and the fact that he has pretty good numbers
but, until this O-line improves, I think Teddy’s strength and mobility gives him the edge. If you have no protection, you have to go with the guy who can best avoid those defenders, the strength to break those arm tackles, the arm strength to throw accurately on the run, and the ability to take off and make something out of nothing. I thought Will had a bit of the “deer in the headlights” out there today.
by Carolina Cardinal on Oct 15, 2011 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Probably true, and UC's defense is much better than what Stein faced at Murray State
Still think we haven’t seen enough true “quarterbacking” so far this season to make a definitive distinction between the two. The stats don’t paint a clear distinction either, but if they did, it would be in Stein’s favor. I would agree that if the QB is limited to dinks/dunks over the middle and avoiding pressure in the 2nd half, maybe Teddy is best for the job.
by UL is my hot hot sex on Oct 15, 2011 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions
At this point I'm in full agreement that it doesn't matter who's back there taking the snaps.
You could have the genetically mashed-up child of all the Brohms, LeFlors, Ragone, Unitas, Nagle, and Redman, with Angel McCoutrey as the mother and they still wouldn’t be any better than what we’ve seen.
No running game, no pass protection, a never ending string of penalties from the offensive line, and a defense that can’t come to sidelines for more than 3-6 snaps is what is plaguing this team right now.
Nothing more, nothing less
Fool's names are like their faces, often seen in public places.
by Chick-Stratino'sUrDaddy on Oct 15, 2011 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions
"Make him earn the demotion to back-up."
Hard to disagree with that.
I’m in the pick-one-and-let-them-play camp. The team is young, especially the OL. It won’t solve the main problems, but some consistency couldn’t hurt. I would prefer Teddy play, but I also don’t care all that much. If Strong says Will should play, I’m behind it. Splitting snaps during games? I believe the costs outweigh the benefit. If one QB isn’t cutting it, sit them and let the other take over.
by loverofthegame on Oct 14, 2011 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Where there's a "Will", there's a way!
Stein is the best shot we have of winning this year. As a fan I want to win now. Teddy is the future no doubt, but I don’t want to give up on this season yet. Go Cards! Beat Cincy and bring home the keg!!!.
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