Dana O'Neil article on the problems with college basketball
by Remote Cardinal on Jul 23, 2010 3:07 PM EDT
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What's wrong with college basketball?
Dana O'Neil has interviewed 20 high-profile college basketball coaches with some serious questions about the landscape of college basketball recruiting. With the promise of complete anonymity, some of the coaches freely speak their minds about what goes on and what's wrong with college basketball. More after the jump.
First off, this is an incredibly interesting read. It's quite insightful to see the coaches list off their stories, complaints and faith (or lack thereof) in the NCAA for the future. Some money quotes:
When asked "How many programs do you think are committing major violations? Secondary? And why does no one snitch?"
"One of my players [who left early for the draft] was working out with another top-five draft pick,'' a coach said. "They got to talking and my kid said something about not having money or whatever on campus. The other kid said, 'My coach set up expense accounts all over town for me. Yours didn't?'''
"If you snitch, you're Abar Rouse [the former Baylor assistant who taped the phone conversation with then-coach Dave Bliss and has since been ostracized from coaching]. That's why no one talks. Plus, how do you prove it? I know stuff. I know stuff that is 100 percent happening right now, but the NCAA wants proof. How can I prove it?"
All of the coaches agreed that "agents and runners" were the biggest problem of college basketball today. One terribly interesting quote,
Another coach, who recently coached a top-five draft pick, said that every agent who came to sign his player offered the same thing: "If you sign with me, I'll deliver you this guy and that guy. Every single one of them is tied to an AAU team. Every one. They cook the deal with the AAU coach. He gets the kid on campus and then cuts a cut.''
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So is this Wall or Cousins?
“One of my players [who left early for the draft] was working out with another top-five draft pick,‘’ a coach said. "They got to talking and my kid said something about not having money or whatever on campus. The other kid said, ’My coach set up expense accounts all over town for me. Yours didn’t?‘’’
by crazygameofpoker on Jul 23, 2010 5:03 PM EDT reply actions
its evan tuner
or maybe favors or how about wesley johnson
"UK isn't a choice, you're born bleeding blue"
by kentuckywild on Jul 23, 2010 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I could see Matta doing that.
by crazygameofpoker on Jul 23, 2010 8:06 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
as someone who has followed the OSU program for a few years now, I'd be very surprised if Thad was one of the bad guys
by quiet cardinal on Jul 24, 2010 3:46 AM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn't
He pulled worse than a Nick Saban on Xavier when he left. Told them he was staying, next day was introduced in Columbus.
Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, is just a freight train coming your way...
ya
cause they all of coaches who have been twice accused of cheating
by cheaters never win on Jul 26, 2010 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
It would be interesting to know...
what head coaches were present at the EYBL Peach Jam. She doesn’t explicitly say the interviews were conducted there, but she implies it.
Rick was there
from what I’ve heard, but I’m not sure if he was interviewed.
by crazygameofpoker on Jul 23, 2010 8:05 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I would take all those hints
to be pointing at Calipari, fairly deliberately and directly by the author too, for it being an anonymously sourced article. Let’s not over complicate it. There is a 2/5 chance it’s him as opposed to 3 other coaches having a 1/5 chance. Also, that’s the only program in the SEC recruiting really well, though Tennessee is ranked 9th for 2010. I also think he might have been the one interviewed who said he would cheat at certain points in his career.
by REALISTICCARDSFAN on Jul 24, 2010 1:29 AM EDT reply actions
They see coaches perceived as rulebreakers being rehired -- and the NCAA, in their opinion, is doing little to stop them.
I also feel like that points to Cal being rehired multiple times after his past teams being caught cheating.
-Dustin
but see thats the problem and misconception
calipari’s programs havent been found cheating, camby took money from agents his jr year, they were trying to lock up his services and rose cheated on a hs sat test before he ever set foot under calipari’s watch,,, i know you guys wanna say www and but cal was the coach yada yada yada but the only reason calipari had the 2nd final 4 taken away was because the ncaa failed at their job… now i cant sit here and tell you that calipari wasn’t responsible for camby and rose cheating but you cant tell me he was.. not by using any proven evidence anyways
"UK isn't a choice, you're born bleeding blue"
by kentuckywild on Jul 24, 2010 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions
NCAA's job?
You do understand the NCAA Clearinghouse’s purpose right? They are simply there to process the information that is given to them. It’s not their job to determine whether there was fraud in a case.
Even in the “thorough” review that is occasionally applied to high-profile recruits? All that means is that the NCAA follows up with the testing agency and high-school directly to ensure that what they were given was not forged.
All the responsibility and liability is on the school. Do I agree with this? No, but that’s the way it is. The bottom line is that Memphis took the chance on Rose; and they paid the consequence.
Was Calipari responsible for Rose cheating? We don’t know. Was he held accountable? No. Has his reputation been damaged as a result of both of his most successful teams getting in trouble? Absolutely.
by Remote Cardinal on Jul 24, 2010 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions
the ncaa clearinghouse job is to
to determine whether prospective college athletes are eligible to play sports.. they do this by reviewing the athlete’s academic record, act and sat scores and amateur status to ensure the conformity with the ncaa rules.. but my only point is the ncaa failed in their job because they cleared a guy that wasn’t eligible and put the blame on memphis and since rose cheated in hs and calipari was answering to his boss(memphis) im wondering why would he be held accountable, i mean doesn’t memphis decide on who is eligible to play on their team. and go to their school… last time i checked calipari and all coaches were incharge of coaching .. not the admin department…and im still waiting on calhoun, kiffen, pete carroll and urban meyer to get 1/4 the hate and rumors that follow calipari… i guess all is forgiven if you have won the title
"UK isn't a choice, you're born bleeding blue"
by kentuckywild on Jul 25, 2010 4:40 AM EDT up reply actions
So
if you’re able to sneak something through the clearinghouse; you should be golden? Even if you get caught later?
by REALISTICCARDSFAN on Jul 25, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
no just punish those responsible
like derrick rose…strip him, of his college stats and awards, and only punish the school if they knew about his scores BEFORE he plays a single minute
"UK isn't a choice, you're born bleeding blue"
by kentuckywild on Jul 25, 2010 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions
With Rose, The NCAA did their job.
They reviewed the information provided and determined that what was provided said Rose was eligible. The NCAA isn’t supposed to determine that it wasn’t Rose who physically took the the test. To believe that it is the NCAA Clearninghouse’s fault in the Rose case is folly. It’s simply not their job. They process the information that’s given to them, nothing more.
Now it’s up for debate whether the schools should be responsible for the players they play, but you’ll need to do a better job convincing me that the players should be held accountable. Because let’s face it, what can the NCAA do to Derrick Rose, Reggie Bush and others? Absolutely nothing of value.
The only way to get results is to punish the schools that played the ineligible athlete. Then the schools should think twice about recruiting the kid with the shady background, questionable grade improvements, etc. After enough high-profile kids are passed over, it should send a message to kids that you need to have your act together to play for the better schools in the country.
And Calipari wasn’t held accountable for the ineligible players at either school. The school was. And that’s how the rules read. Unless it can be proven that Calipari knew or had something to do with Rose’s fraud he shouldn’t be formally punished. However, he was the head basketball coach of both programs at the time of the incidents and as the face of those programs most people feel that he has a responsibility for the players who played for him. If I were a coach who had been burned publicly by three “questionable” players (Camby, Rose, Bledsoe) I think I might start to quit associating myself with them by choosing to recruit them.
by Remote Cardinal on Jul 25, 2010 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions
yea i agree calipari really needs to pass on questionable kids
but camby wasnt really questionable, he just took money his jr year in college, but like in the rose and supposed bledsoe case the student and individuals involved should be punish… not all recruiting violations that happen in hs are from kids with red flags.. and athletes struggle with grades all the time.. a kid struggling with grades doesn’t automatically equal cheater.. and when a school investigates a kid that even the ncaa couldn’t find any dirt on(before they play in college) but later finds something well its hard for me to blame the school…for example IF bledsoe is guilty then his hs coach should be punished for he is preying on kids.. and strip bledsoe of his college stats… doesn’t really hurt bledsoe but neither does the current system… why punish a school that more then likely investigated and found no dirt.. i mean as my earlier post suggest it IS the ncaa job to make sure these kids are eligible and if they weren’t given enough info well the school wasn’t either
"UK isn't a choice, you're born bleeding blue"
by kentuckywild on Jul 25, 2010 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Although i’m not certain of Saban’s intentions I think he might be on the right path when he says if the agents are proven to break a rule there should be some kind of punishment tied to their ability to acquire clients.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
Again, and I can't stress enough...
the NCAA doesn’t go looking for dirt and they aren’t supposed to. If you mail them your records, they might find the dirt on them, but only if you give it to them. All the after the fact cases are reviewed only when a source provides the NCAA with reason that they should actually investigate; where the NCAA has been defrauded.
At that juncture, if they find that the player was ineligible; they punish they only thing they have the authority to punish—the school. To what degree they punish is directly related to if the school knew a priori that the player was ineligible. With the case of Bledsoe (if he were to be deemed ineligible), it doesn’t seem that UK had a priori knowledge that he was ineligible and thus the punishment wouldn’t be severe (think probation) but enough to make a statement that the NCAA doesn’t tolerate ineligible players (think vacated seasons).
Personally, I think it’s a fair system for what it is. Until the NCAA has the ability to punish the actual player (and this will NEVER happen), this is pretty much the best they can do.
Footnote: A Priori means “prior to” and “independent of experience”. Meaning that the school obviously knew the player was likely ineligible (but had clean paperwork) and simply looked the other way.
by Remote Cardinal on Jul 26, 2010 1:10 AM EDT up reply actions
i get ya now
just wish they had a better way of dealing with violations that happen before a kid gets to college… no way for uk and calipari to know bledsoe’s hs coach may or may not paid his rent but oh well.. just hurry up football season im tired of talking basketball
"UK isn't a choice, you're born bleeding blue"
by kentuckywild on Jul 26, 2010 2:50 AM EDT up reply actions
No kidding.
September can’t come soon enough.
by Remote Cardinal on Jul 26, 2010 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Bite your tongue!
just hurry up football season im tired of talking basketball
Are you sure you’re from Kentucky? In the Bluegrass state, there is no end to basketball season; there are just longer breaks between games.
oh believe me i love basketball waaayy more
but i like taking a break from it when football starts.. even though uk has never been a great football team it still is fun
"UK isn't a choice, you're born bleeding blue"
by kentuckywild on Jul 27, 2010 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Calipari wasn’t held accountable by the NCAA but he was held accountable in the court of public opinion.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
public opinion is very easily swayed
rightfully or wrongfully
"UK isn't a choice, you're born bleeding blue"
by kentuckywild on Jul 26, 2010 2:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Let's not be a homer
He is the only to ever have 2 final fours vacated. There is some shady stuff going around him and his teams, and I beleived that before he was at Kentucky. I beleive all coahes find ways to bend the rules, but there are those that blantenly break them. I hope for UK sake he doesnt bring down their reputation with him.
-Dustin
hey im not being a homer.. i never said calipari
isnt a cheat, i just cant say he is either, and while yes he was the coach at both schools there are to many what ifs to say he for sure knew or orchestrated the cheating or not.. just not enough info to make a decision for me… either he is a despicable cheating coach that needs to get his or he is a coach that takes chances on questionable recruits and pushes the rules to the limit, i really dont know and wont say either untill i know for sure… time will tell, and i hope for my team sake that all you guys are wrong but again time will tell
"UK isn't a choice, you're born bleeding blue"
by kentuckywild on Jul 25, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
lol
"UK isn't a choice, you're born bleeding blue"
by kentuckywild on Jul 27, 2010 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions
The quote that made me think of Cal was this one
“Here’s what I think happens a lot — a team loses a kid to someone else and all of a sudden that someone else is cheating.’’
That coach went on to say UNC thinks everybody they lose, and I don’t really recall and UNC recruits that he snatched, but that doesn’t mean there weren’t any.
NCAA and cheaters
Do you remember 10 or 15 years ago when the BC coach (O’Brien???) called out UConn’s Calhoun. He publicly called him a cheater in the recruitment of a specific player. And the NCAA turned a blind eye and didn’t even bother with an investigation.
That’s another reason coaches don’t speak up. They gain nothing or like Bruce Pearl have their careers kicked down several notches and have to start over.
The NCAA is very careful because if there are too many scandals it would hurt the image of the product they are selling.
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