How will the Big 10 Expansion news affect the Big East and what should they do?
by geoffissiffoeg on May 10, 2010 7:43 PM EDT
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PrintIt's now been reported that the Big 10 will offer bids to join to Missouri, Nebraska, Notre Dame, and Rutgers. If Notre Dame accepts a bid will be extended to a currently un-named school to bring the total to 16 but if Notre Dame rejects (which seems likely), they'll stick with 14.
If ND rejects the offer (which seems likely with the Big East still being able to exist giving them a home for their other sports), the Big East will probably only add one more football playing member to keep the league at 8. So who will it be?
The Sun Belt has consistently good teams like Troy and Middle Tennessee is usually alright. WKU is the newest D-1A team and the Sun Belt will soon add South Alabama. In all honesty, however, the only Big East level market is Mobile and USA isn't even officially an NCAA team until 2011 and won't be D-1A until 2013.
The MAC is a strong enough league but are the markets really big enough? Buffalo is a large enough market but they only reason they're football team is semi-relevant now just went to coach at Kansas. Temple is in Philadelphia but it's Temple. They were Big East and they were a doormat then. To be fair, Al Golden is doing a nice job with their program but they are the black sheep of the Philly sports scene usually and didn't/don't draw too well.
The Big East could just dip into Conference USA again. It's not the most appealing (keeping Rutgers would be better) but it's not the most unappealing either. Common tossed around names include ECU, Memphis, Southern Miss, and UCF.
Despite the level of play coming up in the Sun Belt, C-USA and the MAC are still perceived as a better product so the Big East would be better off taking a team from one of those two. I haven't heard any names from the MAC mentioned and as I said above their markets aren't really Big East level so that leaves C-USA.
ECU gets the Big East into the Carolinas, an underrated recruiting ground that, while currently accessible, becomes easier to draw kids from when your team and conference are regularly on TV in the area. While Greenville itself is not the biggest TV market, with alumni across the Carolinas, its games are carried across the majority of both states and some in surrounding states.
Memphis gets the Big East into the Tennessee, Arkansas, and Mississippi region. Fertile recruiting ground and a sizable TV market. It's tough enough to steal a kid from the heavily SEC-laden area but that would be easier with a team in the area. This also rekindles a Memphis-Louisville rivalry.
Southern Miss gets the Big East a hold in the Gulf Coast region. The Hattiesburg area is a good size (a July 1, 2009 estimate puts the population of the Hattiesburg metropolitan area at around 143,093). Their alumni base spans the entire Gulf Coast and, yet again, provides access to a great recruiting area.
UCF gets the Big East into Florida ... oh wait they're already there. Doesn't matter, it's always good to improve your presence in the Sunshine State. Adding UCF would help the Big East in several ways: it helps recruiting (two Big East schools versus one means double the name exposure; that's why the ACC wanted Miami so badly), it's a rivalry (USF might not see it that way anymore, but they would if beating UCF helped them win a conference championship; also why the ACC wanted Miami), and Orlando is a huge TV market (you gain a huge chunk of viewership in the central part of the state and that helps compete with the UMs, UFs, and FSUs).
If it were up to me and I was presented with that short list, my order of expansion candidates would be UCF, Southern Miss, Memphis, and ECU. I think a slight edge goes to Southern Miss over Memphis.
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ESPN is reporting it now.
They took their time picking up the story which makes me think they actually took time to check on a story first before running it.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
"But How will I know limits from lies, if I never try."
by geoffissiffoeg on May 11, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, but ESPN specifically mentions the radio station in Kansas.
So what they are doing is giving themselves and out and keeping some distance from it. When they cut out the citing of the radio station in Kansas, then I will start to believe it.
by CardinalDude on May 11, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
It's ESPN that's what they do.
They cite their sources whether it’s a matter like this or something that like late breaking news that everyone knew was going to happen.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
"But How will I know limits from lies, if I never try."
by geoffissiffoeg on May 11, 2010 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions
True.
But if ESPN really confirmed the sources, I think it would get more than a short debate on First Take. It’s ESPN, there would be round table discussions on what each school should do, each conference blogger would be giving their thoughts on it, etc.
Sure, these may end up being the schools the Big Ten targets, but right now it’s a crap shoot. We’ve seen how easy it is to get rumors started and going, like Bret Bielema to ND late last year.
And whoever the Big East loses, it’s gonna suck. Sure there aren’t many good candidates to expand the Big East, but this sitting around and waiting instead of going out and getting schools now, is just retarded.
Lastly, I hate the Big Ten. Overrated and plodding.
by CardinalDude on May 11, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Nebraska and Missouri
deny the report and won’t comment further.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
"But How will I know limits from lies, if I never try."
Will Other Conferences Go to 14 Teams
This issue will bother me all summer.
by 1stTimeLongTime on May 10, 2010 8:47 PM EDT reply actions
I honestly don't see any of those schools accepting.
However, I still think that an ideal situation for the Big East (even if we keep Rutgers and non-football Notre Dame) would be to drop DePaul and Seton Hall and pick up Memphis and ECU. At least Memphis would be a solid basketball addition too, and would bring back a rivalry.
by CARD_G6 on May 10, 2010 9:23 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Big East will still be in great shape
if both schools accept. ND’s football team isn’t a part of the Big East anyway, and Rutgers haven’t come close to equaling their success of 2006.
As far as basketball, the conference can afford to lose both and remain a top power league. Rutgers b-ball is a joke and ND has struggled more often than not to achieve stability as a perennial power. No biggie.
Among the teams mentioned to fill in the gaps, I like the prospect of adding UCF.
________________________________________________
~LK
www.myspace.com/lordkayoss
www.youtube.com/lordkayossrippro
www.lordkayoss.com
Honestly......
If Notre Dame was to join Big Ten I dont know why they would want anybody else. That would give them 12 and it fits geographicly. The Big East needs to be pro-active about this they cant afford to be cherry picked again. So bring in Memphis, ECU, UCF, and try to pursuade Maryland. Football is where its at, drop out Seton Hall, DePaul, and Providence to free up room and not exceed 16 teams in b-ball, and start a Big East network and we would have a pretty substantial conference all around.
by ville 606 on May 10, 2010 9:45 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
This is great news
If we come out of this only losing Rutgers, I think we should all breath a huge sigh of relief
Agreed
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
"But How will I know limits from lies, if I never try."
by geoffissiffoeg on May 10, 2010 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions
i know its contrarian, but if notre dame and rutgers bolt, i would invite temple at the very least and ecu if people want to remain at 16. i think having that many teams in one conference is too many and any logistical way of shedding members should be pursued. but there has to be 8 football members, so i say lose one major market, pick one up even though both are collegiate afterthoughts in a decidedly pro market city.
Love the Maryland Suggestion
If the Jurich wants the Cards to stay in the BE then those are the types of teams to go for (Maryland, Boston College, Virginia Tech). Even go after Vandy. They might say no, but it’s better than creating C-USA Part 2.
by 1stTimeLongTime on May 10, 2010 11:09 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Vandy would never leave SEC
Academically it doesn’t really fit. Plus SEC games are a huge draw for them
by Chris Redman is my hero on May 11, 2010 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Honestly
none of these teams are very appealing. Memphis would be at the top and fits the best. Southern Miss? UCF? I’m sure UCF is a big school in a big state, but I think at this point we are really grasping at some schools that don’t really work that well. I still I’m perplexed by USF, but I know it’s a big school with tons of alum. I guess I’m just not really up on all this stuff and the musical chairs of the conferences is tedious to say the least.
Maddie in PDX
UCF has a great chance to rise in relevence just like USF has.
…and it’s huger than huge.
19,743 students at the University of Louisville = Good size school.
33,951 students at the University of South Florida = Huge school in the FL’s 2nd largest metro area.
49,679 students at the University of Florida = FL’s flagship university.
53,644 students at the University of Central Florida = Are you kidding me?
UCF has the 3rd largest enrollment in the US for a single campus. Orlando has 2 million TV watchers. I think it would be smart for a conference to try to snatch up UCF while it can.
by sarasota-card on May 11, 2010 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
For sure...
I mean, everyone knows one should always consult the AP Style Manual before making an anonymous blog post.
by quiet cardinal on May 11, 2010 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions
I'll freely admit
this was re-worked about 3 times without proof reading. If I get time this afternoon, I’ll go back and clean it up.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
"But How will I know limits from lies, if I never try."
by geoffissiffoeg on May 11, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Memphis & ECU are only logical additions
First of all huge relief they are not going after Syracuse or Pittsburgh because that would have crippled the BE.
Memphis & ECU are the only two schools that should be seriously looked at for addition (assuming we can peel away an ACC school like MD or BC). As much as we in the Big East love basketball, the real money driver is football and these two appear to have the best football teams among the choices listed in the post. Not to dis on So. Miss of UCF, but they simply do not have the program or facilities to be a BCS school. Memphis in hindsight should have joined the BE when we did, but I suspect CAL did not want to play basketball in a tough league, the whole big fish small pond approach. ECU is a real football school and i think would immediately raise the BE football competition, they have been to a bunch of bowls recently and have knocked off a bunch of ranked teams in the last few years, plus they have an untapped market for the BE. That being said, nothing will change for at least 2 yeas because thats how long a team now has to wait before they can leave the BE, so the new teams would not come on board until the old ones left. Also, I would love to see some of the non-football members leave (dePaul & Seaton Hall, or even Marquette & Providence).
~~~~~~~~
Go Gards!
I disagree counting out UCF
They haven’t been horrible the last few years, and they are spending $70M in athletic facility upgrades. I think UCF sounds somewhat familiar to UofL about 10 years ago (minus the basketball tradition). But then again, they recently got smacked with probation because of recruiting violations.
Southern Miss
“Not to dis on So. Miss of UCF, but they simply do not have the program or facilities to be a BCS school”. Have you ever been to Southern Miss? Our facilities are drastically changing and are pretty good right now. As far as our program, we’ve had 16 consecutive winning seasons and have been to a bowl game 9 of the last 10 years. Compare that to ECU, Memphis, and UCF. Our program is tops in CUSA. We went through a coaching change 2 years ago and will most likely win 9 games, maybe 10, this year. We are in one of the hottest recruting areas in the country. If we are chosen to compete in the BE, we will compete right away. This isnt about basketball, its about football and we have a good enough history to do that. With the exception of the last year in which we were down, ask USF, Cincy, and UL who owned them while in CUSA. The BE has made them competitive and boosted their programs as it will do for the teams that join it. Money does a lot.
So. Miss.
I am not trying to put down So. Miss., I remember playing them for the CUSA championship almost every year when UL was good in the 90’s/00’s. That being said I think there are reasons they are not the best school for the BE and why they were not selected a few years ago when UL joined the BE. I think that while they are competitive in CUSA, I am not sure how that will translate into the BE (not saying we are a football juggernaut but still), I don’t know if their facilities across other sports are on par with the BE (although they have a good baseball team), I don’t see them adding a whole lot in terms of national attention if they join, and finally and most importantly the market in Hattiesburg will not add a lot of revenue to the BE because lets face it this is all about money. If the BE takes 2 or even 3 CUSA schools it will diminish what little football clout he conference has and make it look like CUSA part 2. Of the candidates I still think Memphis and ECU add the most to the conference.
~~~~~~~~
Go Gards!
by ULcardsfan502 on May 11, 2010 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Let's kick out Rutgers, Depaul, Seton Hall, Marquette and Providence
and add Memphis, UCF, ECU, Temple and WKU. 12 football teams and at 15 teams total we can add one more home and home with another Big East Team in Bball.
"You win some, You lose some but you never stop trying to do your best" Denny Crum
I dont want to lose Rutgers, I dont like them but we need them. They are a big school in a big market. I know Marquette doesn’t bring anything but b-ball but we need them, they are like ’Nova.
by ville 606 on May 11, 2010 10:35 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I think Rutgers is
a done deal.
"You win some, You lose some but you never stop trying to do your best" Denny Crum
Rutgers gets us in to NYC in football
But they don’t make any noise there really. And we have ST. Johns and Seton hall for bball.
by Chris Redman is my hero on May 11, 2010 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
What's the thought behind bringing in WKU?
A Sun Belt team that just went 0-12. Yes, they have a new coach. Yes, they just landed the Sun Belt’s best recruiting class. But I’m not sold they’ll do well in the Sun Belt (aka win the league) soon.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
"But How will I know limits from lies, if I never try."
by geoffissiffoeg on May 11, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I just kind of put them in
A man can dream.
"You win some, You lose some but you never stop trying to do your best" Denny Crum
No sigh of relief here!
Who is to say the SEC won’t follow the Big 10’s lead and expand to try and stay as football’s top dog $$-wise? The Big East needs to be proactive and try and persuade say Maryland and Boston College (who still has never really fit in to the ACC) to come to the Big East, and then add one more member to account for losing Rutgers. That gives us ten football playing schools. The Big East must do something of that nature to assure its survival. People who think the SEC might not try to follow suit are kidding themselves I think. As long as we stay as a conference of 8 bball only and 8 football, we will be in jeopardy of being poached into non existance by other conferences!
What's best for Cards
What’s best for UofL isn’t necessarily the same as what’s best for the BE. If BE can’t get schools from other BSC conferences and has to settle for C-USA schools then Tom needs to try to get us in the ACC.
And I’m tired of those idiot talking heads saying we don’t fit the academic profile of the ACC. Like NC State and Florida State are Ivy League schools.
by 1stTimeLongTime on May 11, 2010 11:39 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
FSU and the football program are striving to raise their academic profile.
The new university president was hired to focus on academics (T.K. Wetherell was basically an AD who would let academic issues fall to the side and was a puppet for Bobby Bowden and would do anything to keep him pleased). Jimbo Fisher and his staff are watching the players and recruits grades making sure there are no eligibility issues and that the recruits qualify. The University is striving to get into the AAU and does have a lot of strong programs.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
"But How will I know limits from lies, if I never try."
by geoffissiffoeg on May 11, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Can we not talk about this until something actually happens?
This may be a credible report, but no BE team can leave for 2 years at least once they decide to go. That gives us plenty of time to widely speculate.
by Chris Redman is my hero on May 11, 2010 11:55 AM EDT reply actions
College Football Live Report - Joe Schad
Speculation or not the train has left the station and I just feel like we’re getting left behind. Joe Schad just reported that Big 10 expansion vote will be next month and they will finalize the school they want. Rutgers is basically a done deal. All Cards fan need to pay close attention now because most of the dominos will fall before the end of the summer.
by 1stTimeLongTime on May 11, 2010 7:21 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I meant schools
Rutgers, Missiouri, and Nebraska is all but done according to college football live
by 1stTimeLongTime on May 11, 2010 7:24 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I can post links too
Not that I’m a big fan, but this guy is kind of plugged in with regards to college football.
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=5180305
by 1stTimeLongTime on May 11, 2010 7:59 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
The ACC would be nice...
Going toe to toe with UNC and Duke would be nice in hoops. Goodness gracious it would be a super conference.
by bjack357 on May 11, 2010 10:21 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
as long as the BE is a split conference
the football schools will always get the shaft
they need to leave the BE and form a new conference
ECU is probably better than some of the other BCS teams as is Memphis
I’m sure the schools can convince a few other schools to start improving their athletic facilities so they could join in the future
The ACC watered down their basketball conference to emphasize football
The Big East has been the better basketball conference ever since the last big realignment, and I don’t see that ACC football has been all that great anyway. They might very well be raking in the bucks, though.
last 2 championships and 5 of the last 10
is watered down. The Big East is definitely a beast in basketball but the ACC isn’t bad.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
"But How will I know limits from lies, if I never try."
by geoffissiffoeg on May 18, 2010 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Best Team = ACC. Best Depth = Big East.
I would put Big East first and ACC second in basketball conference rankings.
The ACC tried to make a great football conference and up to this point the teams they brought in haven’t really lived up to expectations (Miami).
by CardinalDude on May 18, 2010 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Fair enough.
Va Tech has. BC wasn’t expected to be great. Miami is lacking funds and Shannon is making bonehead moves in recent recruiting.
The ACC’s dream match up of a FSU-Miami has never happened in the championship game. I would laugh my ass off if it happened now that the game is in Charlotte.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
"But How will I know limits from lies, if I never try."
by geoffissiffoeg on May 19, 2010 12:30 AM EDT reply actions
Reply fail.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
"But How will I know limits from lies, if I never try."
by geoffissiffoeg on May 19, 2010 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions
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