The Louisville football program is a disaster

by Mike Rutherford on Feb 12, 2009 6:00 AM EST in Football Comment 76 comments

On Monday, Louisville head football coach Steve Kragthorpe made the announcement that offensive coordinator Jeff Brohm would be leaving the staff and that Kragthorpe himself would be taking over the play-calling duties in 2009.

Brohm wasn't technically fired, he was offered "non-coaching role" with the program, an offer the man Nick Saban had wanted to call his plays at Alabama politely declined. Instead, Brohm will direct the quarterbacks under former Cardinal head coach Howard Schnellenberger at Florida Atlantic.

You often hear that the Brohm family is Louisville football, but I think it's more appropriate to say that the Brohm family represents success for a program that has been known more for failure over the course of its existence.

Jeff Brohm's story of Cardinal football success might be the most complete.

As an 18-year-old, the eventual Kentucky High School Football Player of the Decade for the 1980s spurned scholarship offers from Notre Dame and USC to stay home and try and help build a winning tradition at the place where his father once took snaps. Brohm served as a backup on the 1990 team that won the Fiesta Bowl before starring as a three-year starter and capturing team MVP honors in 1992 and 1993.

Jeff solidified his status as a Louisville football legend by leading the Cards to a Liberty Bowl victory over Michigan State, despite playing the game with two steel pins and one steel plate in the index finger of his throwing hand. He would later find even more success as U of L's quarterback coach, helping his little brother, Brian, win an Orange Bowl and guide Louisville to an 11-1 record and the most successful season in program history.

If the Cardinal football program were a piece of literature being studied by a high school English class, this is the part where the teacher would explain to the students the symbolism of Brohm's duties being overtaken by Kragthorpe, a man who would likely represent the parallel downfall of the American economy, or something of the like.

I'm not here to speculate on why or how this happened - because aside from broad, simple generalizations, I really don't have a clue - I'm just here to state the obvious fact most of us would rather ignore: the Louisville football program under the direction of Steve Kragthorpe is an abomination. It's a luxury ship headed straight for an iceberg, and it's being captained by a man who won't stop talking about how the iceberg got where it is and why it might move, because he has no idea how to turn the wheel to the left.

The sheer calamity that has been the last 25 months is mind-boggling when you try to take it in at once.

Since Steve Kragthorpe took over in January of 2007, 20 players have left the program for reasons other than graduation or career-ending medical conditions.

The list of defectees, at last check, looks like this:

Lamar Myles (declared for NFL draft)
Mario Urrutia (declared for NFL draft)
Lamar Alston (dismissed)
Rod Council (dismissed)
Marcus Gordon (transferred)
Jonathan Holston (dismissed)
JaJuan Spillman (dismissed)
George Stripling (dismissed)
Willie Williams (dismissed)
Anthony Allen (transfer)
Jeremy Baker (transfer)
Aundre Henderson (quit)
Tyler Wimsatt (dismissed)
Craig James (quit)
Dale Martin (transferred)
James McKinney (dismissed)
Josh Miller (transferred)
C.J. Millenbaugh (transferred)
Matt Simms (transferred)
Latarrius Thomas (transferred)

Over that same time span, Kragthorpe has lost or sent packing 12 assistant coaches.

That list includes:

Charlie Stubbs
Jeff Brohm
Tony Alford
Mike Cassity
Keith Patterson
Reggie Johnson
Mike Nelson
Mike Mallory
Ron English
Ted Roof
Bill Miller
Eric Lewis

In his brief tenure, Kragthorpe has fired two offensive coordinators and a defensive coordinator, and has seen another pair of defensive coordinators accept positions elsewhere. Generally, the firing of a major coordinator hints at a desperate head coach. The firing of three major coordinators and the departure of two more all in just two seasons hints at things I don't even want to begin to think about.

Of course, this would all be forgiven and treated as a non-issue if the team were winning.

It isn't.

Kragthorpe walked into a program which had won 68 games in the last seven seasons, been to nine straight bowl games, finished sixth in the nation in 2004 and 2006, and was returning 17 starters and an All-American quarterback from a team that had just gone 12-1 and won the Orange Bowl. Under his watch, the Cardinals have won 11 games and lost 13, failed to make a postseason appearance, compiled a record of 4-10 in the Big East, and gone a combined 0-6 against the once-dominated trio of Kentucky, Connecticut and Syracuse.

When Louisville fails to win five games in 2009 - which it will - it will be the first time the program has produced less wins than the year before in three consecutive seasons since the 1973-1975 stretch. I wasn't there, but I hear Cardinal football wasn't exactly booming back then.

The facts are painful enough, but watching and listening to a man who is so clearly flailing in the water without a life jacket is excruciating.

You can't say you're accepting full blame in one breath and then talk about lack of defensive depth and character issues left behind by the previous administration in the next. Expressing your devotion to giving an offensive coordinator free reign is nullified when you admit that you felt the need to call 20% of the plays during the previous season. And dancing around questions and speaking in tired cliches is no way to win over a fan base grown accustomed to more wins than losses.

And that's basically what this all boils down to, Steve Kragthorpe has lost more than he's won in nearly every major facet of his job: games, fans, trust, in-state recruits, out-of-state recruits, etc.

The worst part about all of this is that it's not going to be fixed any time soon. "Louisville football" won't elicit the old images of top 15 preseason rankings, conference championships and home field dominance until all of our lives are significantly different.

The tailgating will still be fun, we'll all cheer like hell for the guys wearing our colors, and eventually we'll celebrate our return to a minor bowl game with a funny name with all the unspoiled vigor we did in 1999, but in the back of our minds we'll all know that it didn't have to be like this. We'll all know that there was no excuse for a fall from grace this sudden and this absolute.

I'm aware that talking about this will do nothing to remedy the situation, but neither will ignoring or denying it. The fact of the matter is that the Louisville football program is bad and getting worse, and there's no acceptable reason for why that's the case.

Coming to grips with that isn't fun, but it's healthy.

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Nicely done.

Nothing to add. What an awful situation.

by CardsFan922 on Feb 12, 2009 7:16 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Wow. It's worse than I thought.

One minor correction: we were 12-1 in 2006.

by 83fan on Feb 12, 2009 8:07 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Damn

I always say 11-1.

by Mike Rutherford on Feb 12, 2009 11:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Louisville Announces New Director of Athletics

Although retired for the past six years (what, did he collect Social Security checks?!) and fresh off a comeback victory at Madison Square Garden Tuesday night, the new UofL Director of athletics said that major changes (including the reinstatement of color commentator Fred Willard, the hopelessly naive Gene Levy, and the wonderfully promiscuous Catherine Ohara,) would immediately take place. Although short on details, Mr Stump stressed that he would push Big East officials to begin rotating venues to the spring basketball tournament because the lighting at MSG is too dim, the seating not steep enough, and the steak Tartar overcooked.
http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/VO0oly_xjGV/Champion+Dogs+Compete+Westminster+Dog+Show/qRAti9d4rEY/Stump

Then he rode away into the sunset with the Boy King and his multi colored unicorn.

by Roz on Feb 12, 2009 8:36 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Good points

Only comment I have is that I beleive in each of coopers 3 years our win total was down from the year prior. Not that he’s the guy you want to be comparing notes with.

by dlpfis79 on Feb 12, 2009 8:52 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Actually, Cooper won more in his first year (7)

than Howard won his last year here (6).

by 83fan on Feb 12, 2009 9:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ah okay

I was wonderinfgif that was part of the criteria. I thought it didn’t since Krag’s has only been here 2 years, yet fit the bill already. In that case 3 years of Coop getting progressively worse would fit the bill. But there’s only a 10% chance of that (Naked Gun).

by dlpfis79 on Feb 12, 2009 4:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I read this but...

.. .my heart was breaking more at each paragraph. The saddest part is the feeling of helplessness Kragthorpe AND Jurich have left the faithful fans with. We KNOW it’s going to get worse before it gets better and there’s not a damn thing we can do about it other than suffer.

Heckuva job, Kraggy….

Grog

"There is no OFF position to the genius switch" - D. Letterman

by GrogInOhio on Feb 12, 2009 9:02 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Kragthorpe taking over the offense...

…is a Hail Mary pass. It may work with results beyond what we imagine. If if doesn’t, then Kragthorpe will have no one to blame but himself and he will have shown everyone that his replacement is the only thing to get our team going again. I’m happy about this decision because of the hope that it will mean just one more year before we’re rid of him instead of two.

by helmsman253 on Feb 12, 2009 9:51 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

This is what drives me crazy...

I have read this blog for quite some time, but never posted anything. However, the tipping point has arrived.

There is very little rational thought in the disection of the football program. UofL is not doing well right now. That is a given. And, yes, that lies squarely on the shoulders of the head coach. But, the diefication of Jeff Brohm, and every other person that has left the program, has got to stop.

The only piece of evidence used to argue Brohm’s worth as a coach is the fact Nick Saban wanted him on his staff. That move was a calculated risk for Saban. Brohm worked under some of the true offensive geniuses in football, and there was a chance he could bring with him Petrino’s playbook. However, he had very little coaching experience with responsibility. Now, if you look at the actual results of Brohm’s coaching, there is very little that point’s to him being a good coach.

First, he was the QB coach under Petrino and Kragthorpe. It worked well when his little brother was taking the snaps. But, the progression of Hunter Cantwell (and maybe even Simms) was lacking. Cantwell’s mechanics never improved under Brohm. After his tenure at UofL, an elite QB coach was able to refine Cantwell’s throwing motion in a matter of weeks. Furthermore, Simms was around 2 years without a hint of player development. As a headcoach, Kragthorpe should be able to expect his staff to do their job. He should be able to expect his players to develop under his staff. If they are not developing, then the requisite changes should be made. There are nearly 100 players on the team, and Kragthorpe cannot take on the task of developing each one, although he is responsible for their development. Therefore, he needs to ensure that his players are being developed, en masse, by the coaches at the respective positions.

Next, you can look at Jeff Brohm’s one year tenure at Offensive Coordinator / playcaller. It was a pedestrian effort at best. But, given this was his first year, that is understandable. It also doesn’t mean he can’t become a good OC / playcaller. But, this is the Big East, not C-USA. So, it will be a bit more difficult to learn as you go, as our previous playcallers have been able to do. Furthermore, Kragthorpe is under pressure to win now. He can ill afford another mediocre offensive season. Furthermore, if Brohm’s offensive philosophy is not in step with Kragthorpe, and the rest of the offensive staff, then Kragthorpe should replace him. Is it fun to see a favorite son of the program get shelved? No. But, to say it wasn’t necessary is a bit short sighted.

Lastly, UofL football is bigger than the Brohms. Yes, they have contributed a great deal of success for the program. And, yes, their almost selfless moves to stay home and build their favorite program is much appreciated. But, their past contributions do not give them a lifetime pass to be involved in the program, especially when their later efforts are not furthering the development of the program.

I cannot understand the personal hate everyone has for Steve Kragthorpe. He didn’t come here with the intent to lose. He is also respected in the coaching community. Furthermore, he and Jurich know far more about the true state of the football program than any of the internet speculators do. They should be granted some deference. And, ultimately, it comes down to Kragthorpe’s abiltiy to win and field competitive and competent teams. Should he not do so in 3 or 4 years on the job, by all mean, replace him. But, don’t “boo” him. Don’t torpedo his recruiting efforts by posting inane bullshit on message boards. Don’t react negatively to his everymove until each individual move has proven its merits. To do so shows nothing more than an over-emotional reaction with no footing.

I know some of you won’t understand this post. Particularly, Whacker77. But, this is how a large segment of the football population thinks. Believe it or not, a large contingent of the fanbase does not post on message boards or read blogs. That doesn’t mean they aren’t fans. That doesn’t mean they don’t dislike Kragthorpe. But, they don’t feed on the internet mob mentality that is pervading this program right now. It’s sickening, and it needs to stop.

by LouisDBrandeis on Feb 12, 2009 10:00 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Jeff Brohm

Whether or not Jeff Brohm is any good, you are right it is hard to tell. Kragthorpe said he took over more playcalling after the UK game – which was, by the way, Jeff’s first ever as an Offensive Coordinator. Talk about quality management!

But as to the rest of your post, I think you could not be more wrong. I don’t think anyone really thinks Kragthorpe is intentionally wrecking the program. People are upset because he clearly is not the right guy for the job. What else does he have to do to prove that? “Three or four years on the job” is fine for a rebuilding situation. But Petrino did not leave the cupboard bare – Kragthorpe and Jurich were talking about winning a national championship before the season. Petrino did not have off-the-field troubles while he was here. Kragthorpe’s rules and system of discipline was different than Petrino’s – maybe something that Jurich should have considered before hiring him?

And I strongly disagree that the vast majority of the fanbase agrees with you. I also resent you belittling Mike, Card Chronicle or ITV. Mike is a thoughtful, intelligent writer who loves Cardinal sports enough to maintain this blog and to have created this community. He may get a small amount ad revenue, but I doubt he’s lighting cigars with $5 bills. This site is awesome, and the impact of blogs on the mainstream media and culture is undeniable.

I can’t imagine how you really think a large segment of the fanbase agrees that Kragthorpe just needs some more time, is a good coach who is being treated unfairly by some losers in their basements posting on their mom’s computer. I bet if you did a thread on here where everyone posted their IRL jobs (and did the same on ITV) you would be shocked at the number of professionals on each.

Finally, blaming the message boards for recruits not coming to UofL is like blaming the weatherman for the ice storm. Recruits see the record, recruits see us getting embarrassed on national TV, they see us losing to Syracuse, they see us not going to a bowl, they see half the team leaving or being kicked off. The message boards didn’t cause all that.

Kragthorpe has failed, and in college football, rebuilding takes a whole lot longer than the time to destroy a program. Every year he is here, it sets us back multiple years in recruiting and building depth. Unless he manages to go 8-4 or 9-3 this year, I don’t see any reason to give him a 4th year.

by CardsFan922 on Feb 12, 2009 10:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Screw you, 922, for saying what I was trying to say more quickly and more clearly. Jerk.

by 83fan on Feb 12, 2009 11:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You are right that we don’t have much evidence regarding whether Brohm is a good coach or not, and for that reason, your argument that he isn’t any good doesn’t work terribly well. First, with respect to Hunter, he went from a walk-on, no D-I scholarship offers, to a projected first rounder while Brohm was his QB coach. And while we don’t know if that was Petrino or Brohm, I can tell you that I don’t ever recall his terribly long wind-up during his first 2 years. He regressed this past year, but Brohm wasn’t the QB coach this year. Plus, Kragthorpe tries to sell his NFL QB-coaching experience all the time and hypes how much he taught Brian B. about taking underneath routes, so I have to think Kragthorpe at least shares equal blame.

Second, we only saw Matt Simms for a few snaps in 1 game. No one knows how well he would perform or how much he has developed. His throwing motion stinks, but when we signed him, Phil Simms was clear that he didn’t want anyone changing Matt’s throwing style. I suspect we made some promises to the family about not changing his motion in order to get him to sign. And again, Jeff wasn’t the QB coach this year, and Steve sold Matt on his own QB-coaching ability. Again, at worst, this is a wash between the two.

Third, the offense this year was terrible. But read the Crawford blog posted below. In Kragthorpe’s own words, he admits participating in game planning which included drawing up the specific plays we would use in particular circumstances. He also admits to calling 20% of the plays and having the chance to overrule every one of them, which means he probably called 33% or more. There’s absolut

But the point isn’t that Jeff Brohm is god or is untouchable. I certainly would like to see him succeed and return here, but I want him to prove he deserves it, too. The problem highlighted by Mike is that we are now to a point where the ship is sinking so fast and the administration’s solution is to throw off all excess baggage, no matter how loyal or integral that baggage was to getting UofL to where it is (or was 2 years ago), in order to float a few hundred more yards. You have to think that if Kragthorpe could find a plausible excuse and thought it would get him another year, we’d be knocking down the Unitas statute and taking Howard’s name off of the football building. It’s like if Kragthorpe went back to A&M and told them, "We need to get rid of all of these 12th men walk-ons because they are distracting me from coaching the team." Notre Dame? "This touchdown Jesus is shining in my QB’s eyes, we need to put a drape over it." Obviously, I am exaggerating a bit there, but at what point do you stop favoring the obvious failure over the people that got you to where you are? It’s one thing to say that Kragthorpe deserves another year, but it’s another to say that he should have free reign during that year to do anything that puts him in more favorable light no matter the cost to the people who have been here since the beginning.

As for what the average fans think, I’m not sure you are terribly representative either. I’ll give three anecdotal examples: (1) I have about 6 different season ticket holders in my extended family. I don’t think any of them post on message boards, but all of them are fed up with Kragthorpe and want him to leave. (2) In Kragthorpe’s first season, I got into arguments with members of my wife’s family who are casual fans who go to 1 game a year or so (and have basketball tickets). They talked about how Petrino had only recruited thugs and this was all a result of the mess he left for Kragthorpe. One year later, those guys are now joking with me about how abysmal Kragthorpe is. I didn’t win the argument with them, Kragthorpe won it for me. (3) I have season tickets and often give my extra away especially for weeknight games. In the past, and even in 2007, it was easy to find someone willing to go on a first call. This season, I had to practically beg people to go with me, and for one game that I couldn’t attend, I didn’t find anyone to take my tickets. I think the casual fan base is turning into an apathetic fan base very, very quickly. They may not be mobbing for Kragthorpe’s firing, but they’ll be happy just paying attention to basketball like they did before Howard showed up.

by 83fan on Feb 12, 2009 10:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The fact that Louis D. Brandeis has risen from his ashen grave on campus

to tell us about Coach Kragthorpe proves that we are in a situation of immeasurable importance.

Those are good thoughts. It is very easy to jump on the “Fire stoopiddumbfacecoach” wagon, and the internet often encourages mob mentality. That being said I think that this blog has done a great job of analyzing the facts and responding with a the mixture of facts and emotion that every fan has. I personally have always felt that Kragthorpe would get 3 years at least, and very hesitant to call for anyone to get fired. That being said, the distance this program has fallen in the last two seasons its undeniable. I’m still hoping that he can right the ship, but the current situation with coaches and players looks grim.

by Dais on Feb 12, 2009 11:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Cardchronicle has kept a very even keel while still getting Mikes opinion through

That and the immense civility of this site are what have me coming to this forum over scouts these days.

by dlpfis79 on Feb 12, 2009 4:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I completely agree with both Dais and dlpfis79 here...

the overall intelligence, passion and (for the most part) rational thought that is applied by the majority of people here at CC is what makes this place what it is and why many fans of opposing teams consistently rank our fan base as one of the classiest in the country.

by quiet cardinal on Feb 12, 2009 5:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

All the vital stats have been given and points made.

But here’s a little anecdotal “layman’s” stat that I think “common fans” have the hardest time with: 5-2 to 5-7. We were one game away bowl eligibility, had just won the biggest game in two years, and were in the Big East race. Complaints about Kragthorpe were starting to subside, because it looked like he had figured things out and knew what he wanted to do with this team: press the opposing QB, stop the run, and on offense, use the run to set up the pass. There were trick plays, and moments of true brilliance on the field that day.

And then Syracuse happened. There were no trick plays, they were running all over us, and whatever semblance of a passing game we had vanished in one week. We didn’t win a single game the rest of the season, and what’s worse, we didn’t look like the same team that beat USF. Yeah, we had depth issues, but that wasn’t until the last few weeks of the season. I’m willing to put the Rutgers loss on the lack of depth, because our offense was actually decent enough to win a game if our defense had been able to stop, well, anything. But Syracuse? Cincinnati at home? No excuse.

Look, we’re not making these things up. We’re not pissed because we didn’t win the national championship. We haven’t made Krag’s failures up; he’s done a good enough job of making himself public enemy number one. If you want to be taken seriously, you have to show at least some semblance that you know what you’re doing and you know what it takes to get things going. So far, he’s taken an NFL-recruit haven to 6-6 and a decent team that was playing hard with tons of heart to 5 straight losses and the worst losing streak in school history. We didn’t make that up on Card Chronicle.

by CARD_G6 on Feb 12, 2009 11:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Hey, dickwad

Go back to Howie Lindsey world and continue to post in the echo chamber dominated by CardsDan and the other idiots who run the show over there. Day after day, I am amazed at the lengths the Kragthorpe apologists will go to defend one of the worst coaches in Division 1A football. No matter the evidence, no matter the results, you and your fellow comrades march in lock step with the Jim Jones of college football coaches.

In Kragthorpe world, it’s the fault of everyone but the head coach. Last year, it was Cassity, Stubbs, and the entire defensive staff. This year, it was Jeff Brohm. Who’s it going to be next year? I know it won’t be Kragthorpe because Tom Juirch hired him and Tom never makes mistakes, right? Is it really possible to believe it’s everyone else’s fault. If that’s the case, who hired all of these terrible coaches? The answer is Kragthorpe so why doesn’t that reflect poorly on him?

We all know Kragthorpe didn’t come here to destroy the program, but that is what he has done. As you said, he should be judged by results on the field. That is what I and others are doing. Quite simply, his results on the field have been terrible. In the last five games of the 2008 season, his team was outscored by more than 100 points. In the last game of the season, his team gave up 49 points in just one half. If that qualifies as competence, then someone must have redefined the word without telling me.

It’s wonderful that Dan Henning and RC Slocum have a high regard for Kragthorpe’s coaching accumen, but their opinions and a quarter won’t even buy you a call on a pay phone. Kragthorpe is making $1.5 million a year and he deserves to have his feet held to the fire. There is no conceivable way he has earned any of the money unless he was assigned a demolition task. Louisville football bears no resemble to 2006 or even 2003. Right now, it looks like 1997 with no end in sight.

If it comforts you to root for Kragthorpe, go right ahead. I am going to root for Louisville. I want what’s best for the program and Kragthorpe is not it. No coach has ever been given so much and done so little. You can convince yourself all you want that a majority of the fanbase supports Kragthorpe, but you are sorely mistaken. If you only poll people Howie has not banned from Cardinalsports.com, you are going to get a skewed group of respondents.

It was a mistake for you to leave the echo chamber of Howie land.

by Whacker77 on Feb 12, 2009 12:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Wow

You managed to write 450 words and not add anything constructive to the conversation.

It is possible that he shouldn’t have called you out in his post, but he was right, and you just proved it.

by Dais on Feb 12, 2009 12:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Nothing constructive?

Well, I guess you would know what “nothing constructive” means since you support Steve Kragthorpe. I added what I felt were important counterpoints to the Kragpologist’s post. You may not like them, but you support Steve, who we are told is a good man. As I told you earlier this week, it you want to tell yourself fairy tales about Kragthorpe, go right ahead. You and the other supporters better buy kevlar suits, though. It’s going to be awfully tough to support this guy as he produces a 3-9 or 4-8 season.

Mike, you need to issue a red alert. The memo must have gone out from Floyd Street that your site was getting too tough on Koach. The supporters are swarming all over your site today.

by Whacker77 on Feb 12, 2009 12:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Get real

Nobody here “supports” Steve Kragthorpe. But most people know that all the bitching is not going to do a damned thing to help the situation, except make U of L fans look like UK fans. Whacker, everybody knows how you feel. I guess if you get up to a million words in your complaints you think it’s going to make a different. It won’t so just shut up.

by Harmon on Feb 12, 2009 12:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Nope, not going to happen

Sorry, but I’m not going to “shut up”. Feel free to ignore my posts all you want. It won’t bother me in the slightest. Shutting up is just what Tom Jurich wants. If no one complains, even though there is much to complain about, it could give the impression everyone is just fine with Steve. The last thing we should do is just shut up. If demanding accountability and a winner as a coach makes us look like Kentucky fans, then so be it.

By the way, Louis Brandeis is a huge supporter of Steve Kragthorpe. You read his posts at Cardinals Sports.

by Whacker77 on Feb 12, 2009 1:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Wrong!

I’m a huge supporter of UofL. I want Louisville to succeed and frankly, I don’t care who is the catalyst for that success. Therefore, I don’t have any ill feelings toward Steve Kragthorpe. I want Steve Kragthorpe to be the man at UofL because that means we are winning and do not have another transitional period. However, the football team has underperformed, and it is his job to win football games. But, I have sense enough to realize what you see from the outside is not always the reality on the inside (and this YOUR biggest fault). Tom Jurich demands results. He always has. He will do what is best for the University and the athletic department. There is no way you can discount that statement. If and when he does not get them from Kragthorpe after giving him ample opportunity, then a change will be made.

Frankly, your conspiracy theories regarding Tom Jurich and Steve Kragthorpe would do Oliver Stone proud, but really add nothing to the conversation of UofL football and any such path back to the top.

by LouisDBrandeis on Feb 12, 2009 2:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

We all wanted Steve to succed here

3 years ago….it’s not going to happen.

Go Cards!

by Red Rage on Feb 12, 2009 2:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Pathetic

How many people in your life do you hate? Might want to think about that.

by Harmon on Feb 12, 2009 6:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Right now

You’re on the list. Other than a few other like Kragthorpe, the list is less than three or four, so count yourself lucky.

by Whacker77 on Feb 13, 2009 11:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Good luck

I’ve spent much wasted breath trying to get that through to Whacker, but you’re either against him or for him. I wish we could all live in a world that simple.

by dlpfis79 on Feb 12, 2009 4:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The world is black and white

The world is that simple. A coach either wins or loses. If you want to give him extra points for trying really hard, go ahead. I judge coaches, especially those who make a lot of money, by wins and losses. If he had shown competence or an ability to recruit, I would be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt through three years. He hasn’t shown that. It’s ok to be a fan and to criticize the coach. Faith in TJ was ok during year one, but we’re past that point.

by Whacker77 on Feb 12, 2009 5:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Well...

I see there’s been plenty of responses to this painfully long post. Albeit some have a bit more fire that I would have responded with, I’d agree with most that you simply couldn’t be more WRONG.

Note: Petrino’s last year…. 12 -1 (Mike says 11 – 1… but I’m sure that’s incorrect). + Orange Bowl
Kragthorpe’s 1st year… 6 – 6 + No bowl
Kragthorpe’s 2nd year… 5 – 7 + No bowl

I don’t think I need my Speed School degree to note a pattern here. Say what you will about Brohm, Petrino, Jurich or Kragthorpe… 11 – 13 and no bowls is all the empirical evidence one needs to know to note that something smells. Add the turnover in players and coaches and said smell reeks all the way to the West End and St. Matthews even reaching me here in Columbus, Ohio.

Grog

"There is no OFF position to the genius switch" - D. Letterman

by GrogInOhio on Feb 12, 2009 2:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Good post, LouisD

It’s pretty easy to jump on the program right now, and I’m sure the current players really appreciate fans trashing the very program they claim to love. If I were a recruit, I wouldn’t go anywhere near this program simply because of the negative nannies who keep digging up trash to make it worse. The primary posting here is an direct/indirect shot at Tom Jurich who is protecting the university’s name by giving a coach at least three seasons to prove or disprove he is up to the job. Many of our fans are shortsighted and we would be better off without them.

by Harmon on Feb 12, 2009 10:10 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

List of reasons why recruits won’t come here:

(1) Terrible results;
(2) Lack of staff stability;
(3) Lack of player development;
(4) Not a traditional powerhouse;
…
(10) Urban campus/ commuter school;
(11) Hotness of girls on campus compared to SEC schools;
…
(25) We don’t wear cool enough uniforms;
…
(54) negative blog posts about coach from passionate fans;
(55) Don’t look good in color red;
(56) Don’t like black uniforms.
End of list.

If you were a recruit and let the message boards sway your decision, then you are doing it the wrong way.

by 83fan on Feb 12, 2009 10:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh, I left "ridiculed by announcers on national broadcasts" and "Did you see the Rutgers game" off my list. They are both probably top 10.

by 83fan on Feb 12, 2009 10:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Hotness of girls SEC garbage, etc.

You apparently haven’t been to any football games if you haven’t taken note of the girls at U of L games.

The negative blog posts are redundant.

by Harmon on Feb 12, 2009 10:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

= quality, but =! quantity.

by 83fan on Feb 12, 2009 11:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

"Hotness Of Girls On Campus Compared TO SEC Schools"

I’m with you on this one, Harmon. The statement is so vacant, that it almost defies comment. That said, I will comment thusly:

1. If the locals are anything like the girls featured by Frankpos and the fine UofL photographer, then the boys of Louisville have nothing to worry about.

2. Mr 83fan compares the locals unfavorably with the girls of the SEC. Well isn’t the University of Kentucky in the SEC? Isn’t Louisville in Kentucky? Do the chicks somehow become more comely as your drive east on the the interstate toward Lexington?

The football commentary here is some of the most pointed and arch that I have seen on Mike’s great blog. Being an outsider,
I have always thought of UofL as a basketball school since I started following the Cards in 1975. That said, I think the football recruiting, the NATIONAL recruiting, would go much better if the powers that be emphasised more your one undeniable ace, the Hope Diamond, the ace somehow discarded in national recruiting as though it were a nine of clubs. And I would bet that most of the potential blue chippers, and all the blue chippers that got away, don’t even know he went here. That is:

3. Unitas

by Roz on Feb 12, 2009 1:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, the girls are hotter in Lexington and the rest of the SEC

Don’t ask me why, but it’s true. I’ve been to too many places to not notice the difference. Country girls are simply better looking, or at least there’s a greater percentage of them.

I don’t selling Unitas would get us anything. Most kids don’t even remember Aikman, Montana, and Elway.

by Hari Seldon on Feb 12, 2009 1:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

How could most recruits

not be aware of Montana? And if a recruit were not familiar with Montana, I don’t know if I’d be interested in him as a recruit, anyway…these guys are Hall of Famers and if a recruit does not know who THEY were, the only way THAT recruit would ever get to Canton himself would be to PAY his way in.
Football’s not my thing, Hari, but again, I think a lot of kids who might be familiar with the name "Unitas," or "Red Grange," for that matter, would be cognizant of the college he attended.
In that sense, in that general sense, not in a particular recruiting sense so much, I think you guys could benefit from getting it out there about Unitas. To support your point, I bet 90 per cent of recruits don’t know Unitas went to UofL. To support my point, I think it is incumbent upon you guys to get the word out there. I just think you’ve got a diamond that needs to be buffed a little more.

Those country girls must have some great PR people out there, so I’ll take your word about their appeal. Just can’t believe they don’t have counterparts in the city, too.

Enjoy the game against ND tonight.

Roz

by Roz on Feb 12, 2009 2:49 PM EST

by Roz on Feb 12, 2009 2:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

They don't remember them

Because they haven’t played in a decade. Most recruits are only 18 years old, and since Montana quit playing over 10 years ago (maybe 15, I can’t remember), most recruits simply wouldn’t remember him playing. They were too young. They’re more likely to remember guys who have been successful in the last 5-10 years. They might know the name, but that’s not the same.

I think fans are more familiar with a sport’s history than most players. Mostly because we’re older and appreciate it more. But I don’t think a lot of kids care too much about football history. I couldn’t even tell you who Red Grange played for BTW. But you’re right, it is something the school could sell.

by Hari Seldon on Feb 12, 2009 3:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Galloping Ghost

Illinois, I believe. He wore the leather helmet and everything.
Now get back to work.

Have a good night.

by Roz on Feb 12, 2009 3:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The first star of pro football--began to gain it public recogntion

by frankpos on Feb 12, 2009 4:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Frank

Now you’re talkin’. And Unitas, after only Otto Graham, perhaps, was the first iconic player in the NFL. A lot of people, and not just because of their age, don’t realize that well into the 1950’s, that NFL pro football was really small time stuff…of course the Ameche game at Yankee Stadium, the first overtime game, began to change that.

But that’s what I mean about Unitas…you’ve got a treasure there. And I maintain that there’s something to be said about knowing your own history.

Jeez, Frank, this board is blazin’ today. I better get off and get ready for tonight.
Always a pleasure.

by Roz on Feb 12, 2009 4:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Here I Am

Leaving my South Bend hotel for tonights tip off.
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic-art/241642/108825/Red-Grange
I even played hoops back in the day. I was listed as 6’ 2", but when I took off my helmet I was 5’ 4’.

by Roz on Feb 12, 2009 4:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

10) Urban campus/ commuter school;

I doubt this reason. Who wants to go to school in the middle of no where? Take a poll at USC and UCLA and see what you come up with.

by swedgeblock on Feb 12, 2009 11:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Couldn't disagree more

Obviously some fans are shortsighted, but I think most UofL football fans are knowledgeable and devoted. What would worry me more would be if most fans were blindly cheerleading as they watch the program melt down under Coach K. What you see as “negative nannies” is more likely the expression of a sense of urgency to fix things as quickly as possible – because our smart fan base understands that even one more year of this guy at the helm makes the job his successor has that much harder. Very reminiscent of the Cooper’s tenure. Only now, the stakes are higher because we were close to the pinnacle under Petrino.

Jurich’s mistake – and it may haunt him the remainder of his days – was in choosing to land a guy quickly that was a buddy of his, instead of doing what true big-time programs do with coaching vacancies: taking their time and conducting a nationwide search for the biggest name their money can land. Louisville had the dough to get a big fish. Not doing so has set this program back (conservatively) about 5 years. I think you can safely add another 2 years to that for every additional year K stays.

The fans are correct in their rabble rousing about K needing to go, and go now. Loving UofL football means exactly that – not remaining mute when you know there’s a big problem that isn’t being addressed.

by CardsFanTX on Feb 12, 2009 10:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I understand the sentiment

But John L. had us back in a bowl one season after Cooper left us ten times worse than we currently are. That’s one of the main reasons I don’t think we’ll be down forever, or even that long when/if Krags is let go.

by dlpfis79 on Feb 12, 2009 4:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I got my brown paper bags ready for the games

And I will be very drunk… or taking pictures

by sam34gtr on Feb 12, 2009 10:12 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

They should be granted some deference????

Give me a break. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting a different result. Fans and bloggers and anyone else who has a mind to do so have the right to express their utter disgust and disdain for what’s happened.

Blind allegiance serves no purpose, either to soldiers or to citizens. Blind allegiance to arrogant leaders who, while claiming to accept responsibility in fact do exactly the opposite, results in the well intentioned following the unqualified right over the cliff. Blind allegiance, for gosh sakes, by politicians, the public and the media, led us into an illegal invasion of another sovereign nation — one that hadn’t done a damn thing to us.

So deference my ass. They don’t deserve deference; Kragthorpe and those complicit in the destruction of what was once a program of national prominence deserve scorn and derision. It’s what they’ve earned.

No one here is saying anything bad about the kids; college kids shouldn’t be booed and they shouldn’t be the object of ire. But coaches who, in one instant, say “I’ll take the blame” and then immediately point that very blame at others, that kind of false piety and fake humility deserve to be met with disgust.

This tendency by some to say “but he’s the leader of my program; he’s such a good man” when evidence flies in the face of such pablum is difficult to comprehend.

Kragthorpe screwed the pooch here. Repeatedly and without affection.

theoldman

by theoldman on Feb 12, 2009 10:27 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

By the way,

the logic, or lack of it, used in the suck-up-to-Kragthorpe post sullies the good name of Justice Brandeis, one of this city’s deepest thinkers and brightest lights. Over in his crypt, the poor man is spinning like an animometer in yesterday’s storm.

theoldman

by theoldman on Feb 12, 2009 10:37 AM EST reply actions 1 recs

blah, blah, blah...

Brohm was not a good coach. Period. I don’t like Krags, but him firing Brohm is the least of my concern as it relates to our football program.

by CiscoandDean on Feb 12, 2009 11:23 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Sorry but I agree with Brandeis

Not entirely in detail, but in the gist of what he was saying. Basically he, myself, and everyone else can agree on one thing:

“Should he not do so in 3 or 4 years on the job, by all means, replace him.”

Most people, including myself, think 3 is plenty, without the need for 4.

However, the comments about the deification of the Brohm family are correct. As a somewhat objective Louisville fan, who is not from the actual city, and did not attend St. X, Trinity or any other Metro Louisville high school, I am not swayed by the same biases as many other fans in the city of Louisville. CC is a great blog, but like any other human being, Mike has his own personal opinions about this city and UofL. He is a Trinity grad, and that is reflected in his unwavering support for Jeff Brohm.

It seems like a lot of people are talking out of both sides of their mouth: keep loyal guys like Brohm around because of their past connections, or win at all costs. Well, we are attempting to win at all costs, and Jeff was let go in the process. I for one would like to win, because that’s the name of the game. The University and team are far more important to me than a purported “first family.”

I think everyone is in agreement about Kragthorpe. I think the only difference is how to support the team in the meantime. Do we root for him to fail? Do we boo him right out of the gates? Or do we support his last ditch effort until it is apparent it is not going to work?

I think nothing would be more shameful for our university than for fans to not show up for football games next season, especially early in the season and for the start of Big East play. Nothing would solidify the nationwide opinion that we are not a major college football program more than having that happen. Even Florida fans showed up to support Ron Zook. Alabama fans showed up to support Shula. And as much as Houston Nutt became hated at Arkansas, fans still supported the team.

All of this talk about giving up your season tickets is ridiculous. A real fan would keep their tickets so you wouldn’t miss the chance to have them when the new coach gets here, or in the unlikely event Kragthorpe is successful, miss the chance to see a good team this year. That is the true definition of bandwagon fan.

by Hari Seldon on Feb 12, 2009 11:33 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Im at St X grad.

and I support Brohm. I dont think Mike was saying Brohm can do no wrong, or even that Brohm shouldnt have been fired, but more that the dismissal of Brohm, who was reguarded as a very good coaching prospect at one time (the Saban courtship), is the end of an era for UL football, an era that saw us reach a level of success that we have never acheived before and might not for a long time. I dont think Mike’s attending Trinity (while wrong on so many levels) has anythign to do with his opinion of Kragthorpe.

While i agree most coaching situations hsould be given 3-4 years to develope theit program at a school, i think Kragthorpe has shortened his grace period. We may not be accustomed to winning the way programs like USC, Texas, Alabama, Notre Dame, or any other traditional power (not necessarily recent power) are, but we are knowledgable enough to know what is being put out on the field is a mess. yeah, some blame went to Petrino, some blame went to dumb players who did thinks that would get them kicked off any program in the country (Council and Willie Williams), some blame went to the other coaches, but ultimately, most blame does and should rest squarely on the shoulders of Kragthorpe.

I will continue to cheer for the team, hope we win every game, and would love to see Kragthorpe holding a BCS trophy at the end of the year, but you and i know that isnt going to happen. honestly, what i hope for is we win as many games as possible, Kragthorpe and Jurich come to a “mutual” understanding that both parties need to move on, and this is resolved as smoothly and quickly as possible

by Ben Go CARDS on Feb 12, 2009 12:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Brandeis

This is my first post ever on a blog, but I have read CardChronicle for a couple years now. I am very disappointed in the attack on Mike by Brandeis and Hari. I think disagreeing with his opinion is fine, but attacking a well-written blog because you disagree is ridiculous. Mike does not immediately reply to actions taken by the athletic department, and backs the vast majority of his writings up with facts. Disagreeing with him is fine, but attacking him or the blog is just plain ignorant.
Second, I think the problem in the program is Krags. If you want to give him three years that is fine, but anything less than a bowl game for a third straight year should be grounds for firing for any BCS conference coach. Four years is just acting like there is no problem to speak of, and that is simply not the case. I have no allegiance to Jeff Brohm, in fact, Brian Brohm beat me in the toy bowl as an 8th grader, but firing a man who Krags never really gave a chance sure smells like desperation. When this team struggles on offense to even get the correct personnel on the field, then there will be no argument over whose fault it is.
Third, recruits read blogs, but it makes almost no impact on their coming to the school. Losing records, bad national TV performances, and a lack of stability in the coaching staff ranks much higher on their lists. The only positive for a recruit, right now, is playing time is available.
Finally, I do not have the money to pay for season tickets, but I go to three games a year probably. I will still go out and support MY team every game, but following Krags because he is the coach is a waste of time. If he does something wrong, I have the right to say that he is doing something wrong. Just like if RP makes a bad decision late in a game, I would say that too. Winning and losing is the bottom line and Krags keeps losing. Whether its games, coaches, or players, we are losing way too much for a program that thought it was a national title contender once it moved to the Big East. GET OFF MIKE’S BACK, and GO CARDS.

by brad23000 on Feb 12, 2009 11:44 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

This shit has gone back and forth on ITV , etc. for 3 yrs now...

Hey Brandeis and Hari, you make a few points but you miss the bottom- line main one: K has not won. Nor is he set to win next yr. Nor is he recruiting well, which points to future failure also.

Here’s another scoop: 90% of the fan base want K gone—it has been that way on EVERY poll done, C-J or otherwise.

FYI, I’m a business owner and a sizable donor—who knows A LOT of other even bigger donors and people connected to the program. A LOT OF THEM ARE PISSED!

Here’s another insight for you: K is gone after this year , if he doesn’t produce a winning record.

So as one of the biggest donors stated to me yesterday morning: " I’m smiling because I only have to see this guy for one more year."

by frankpos on Feb 12, 2009 1:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Good info

90% seems extreme, but those polls are internet based, and I’d say easily 90% of the people rabid enough to post about UL on the net want him gone.

Would the big donors be assuming the buyout of the contract? I honestly believe that’s the only way he will be gone before the contact expires.

by dlpfis79 on Feb 12, 2009 4:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Dipfis, Not needed: was told enough is there in a slush fund for such things...

by frankpos on Feb 12, 2009 6:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Scoop, hell

I haven’t see a poll that indicates 90% of the fans want him gone. Can you provide us with some sources to back this up? The biggest donors are on the Athletic Association Board, and they are standing behind Tom Jurich’s decision. The “insight” you provide on his future is pretty much taken for granted. It doesn’t take your inside scoop from “one of the biggest donors” to grasp the obvious.

Time to settle down, let is take its course. Jumping on other fans who have already seen the obvious but want to make the best of the situation is not helpful.

by Harmon on Feb 12, 2009 6:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

OK, if not 90%, what 75-80%? --C-J had one not long

And…a lot of the donors are upset. That is fact. No, they will not state it publicly, but will privately.

by frankpos on Feb 12, 2009 6:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Better duck Frank, Floyd Street is firing at you

It looks like the memo was sent out that this site is now part of Eric Crawford’s ROFL. The very day Mike says the program is headed in the wrong direction, a bunch of new posters show up defending Kragthorpe. I guess Rocco is working overtime.

These new guys can attack Frankpos all they want, but those of us who have been here a while know his information is very accurate.

by Whacker77 on Feb 13, 2009 11:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Predictable

The point was that frankpos’ sources are no better than anyone else’s sources. What he says is quite obvious even to the most uninformed fans. Crediting it to big donor sources is a little self-serving and really lends no more credibility to his ramblings. No one is attacking him; just pointing out that he’s just another disgruntled fan.

The same can be said for the author of the blog post, saying what everybody already knows. It boils down to one more season and the number of wins and losses.

Please spare us all of this “inside” information.

by Harmon on Feb 13, 2009 1:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You're dead wrong

I know who frankpos’s source is and he is a great source. Basically, you need to STFU.

by Whacker77 on Feb 13, 2009 3:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Not going to do it for a whiner

Why does someone need a source to tell us what everybody already knows?

by Harmon on Feb 14, 2009 5:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Attacking Mike?

In what way was that being done? Neither Brandeis nor myself did anything of the sort. I was replying to other posters as much as I was replying to Mike’s original post. Mike clearly stated that he would be supporting the cards no matter what next season, while other fans are continually saying (on this blog and several others) that they will root for the team to fail, boo the team, get rid of their season tickets, not watch on TV, etc. etc. etc., all before spring practice even begins. Clearly I was responding to those people. And the talk about Jurich leaving is retarded.

Everyone agrees that the blame belongs to Kragthorpe. But on the other side of the coin, he should be allowed to make decisions, while he’s still here, to rectify the things that have gone wrong. Getting rid of Brohm is one of them.

Even worse are comments about Krag being fired NOW. Yeah, that makes sense. Right after signing day and before the start of spring practice. We’re sure to find a suitable replacement in the meantime.

I think people are not giving Jurich enough credit and actually think Kragthorpe is going to be here long term regardless of results. Let’s get real, Jurich will make a coaching change if need be when the timing is right, i.e. he’s got a suitable replacement on board and it makes financial sense with the buyout, etc.

Frank, that’s been my point all along. It’s just one more year. So what are we going to do in the meantime?

by Hari Seldon on Feb 12, 2009 1:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Question for Frankpos

How much pull do the donors (boosters as they’re known in SEC land) have with regards to coaching changes?

Specifically, what many of us fans have been wanting to know, were there any outside influences (outside of SK) that determined the hiring of Cassity as DC in year 1, or the hiring of JB as OC in year 2? Were these TJ’s choices? Or does big money play a part in this somehow?

Just asking because I know the effect donors have on other schools’ decision making.

by Hari Seldon on Feb 12, 2009 1:37 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

TJ has TOTAL control over decision-making on hiring /firing football coaches-- he may

say he defers to K or whoever, but TJ sees all/ knows all…and ultimately decides all , in the athletic dept.

Having said that, he understands money—and how to make it thru the donor system—better than any AD I’ve seen. So he listens to donors, fans, etc.—but they play a very small part in his decision-making.

Which is fine by me, because I generally trust Tom’s instincts. I’ve said before—the man’s human and will make some mistakes (umm, K). But he’s a star because he hits home runs 90% of the time, so I give TJ a BIG break (like when he gets kinda peevish with the press and fans.)

by frankpos on Feb 12, 2009 2:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yep

If not for Jurich I’d be a lot more worried than I am for sure.

Good stuff today Frank.

by dlpfis79 on Feb 12, 2009 4:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Jurich can be wrong, it is possible

Maybe Jurich is dumb like a fox, but I’m not so sure in this case. Knowing year three will be worse than year two, I don’t know why we hold on just to fire him after 2009. If Jurich is set on three years, so be it. If the handwriting is on the wall, I would think it’s easier to pull the trigger and move forward now. Another year of non-stop carping from plenty of people, not just me, isn’t going to help anything. I’ve said my piece and I’m moving on for now.

by Whacker77 on Feb 12, 2009 5:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Well, once possible defense of Jurich on this front is

that we are going to suck next season no matter who the coach is. I do wonder if a top-notch coach would take the job if the last coach got fired after 2 seasons and the upcoming one is going to be worse than both of them. This might be the best way to find the best coach for next year.

However, as much confidence as I ordinarly have in Jurich is shaken, not by the fact that he hired Krags or that he kept him around this year, but by the fact that he has slipped up in dealing with the fans. Trying to tell us what a mess Petrino left, and telling us about building things the “right way” when Krags signs up Willie Williams and a truckload of Jucos, and, worst of all, telling us that the fans are unrealistic because they expect the Orange Bowl every year was a very disconcerting misstep by Jurich. It made me wonder whether he sees the problems or not. I generally will trust in Jurich because this is the only mistake he has made, but he needs to lay off the fan-blame game.

by 83fan on Feb 12, 2009 5:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs