Crawford on Kragthorpe

Oodles, oodles I say, of good stuff here.

Q: You've talked about your offensive philosophy, and if it wasn't reflected in your offense last season, why do you think that was?

A: Well one of the things I've always tried to do with a coordinator when I hire a coordinator, Eric, is I try to get him a chance to put his stamp on it, to do things the way that he would like that they be done. And so, I've done that wherever I've been, whether it was at Tulsa as a head coach or here at Louisville as a head coach. And so, I just like, again, if I was going to make a change that I needed to be the guy that was directing that, so that there would be no questions, so that there would be no ambiguity about how the offense was structured or who was calling the shots. I just thought that was the best thing to do, and to go ahead and throw it out there and prahse it that way.

I knew there would be a lot of talk about Brohm, and I expected Kragthorpe to go out of his way to say he wasn't pinning anything on Brohm, which he did. But when you cut a guy loose, you're pinning it on him, even if it's just because you want to take over the play-calling. U of L had a head coach for four years, but still had a coordinator in the booth, if in name only. Kicking a guy off the staff is a dramatic action, and it speaks louder than words.

9 months ago Mike Rutherford 15 comments 0 recs |

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Please leave, Steve

Fagthorpe was so committed to letting Jeff put his stamp on play calling that he all but took it away from him after just one game. Every time this guy speaks in public my blood pressure shoots through the roof. He is the epitome of scam artist. I give him credit. He knows how to talk a good game, but he can’t produce.

What I found most informative and depressing was Crawford’s dissection of the differences between Dorkthorpe’s offensive philosophies and Petrino’s. Petrino was all about mismatches, different formations, and getting an extra blocker at the point of attack. Moronthorpe just throws a couple of plays against the wall and sees what sticks. Bring back “Feed the Studs”!

I can’t wait until the day this guy is fired.

www.firekragthorpenow.com

by Whacker77 on Feb 10, 2009 11:37 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Says the guy in the booth for 0% of the play calls.

I hate to call out particular posters, but everytime Kragthorpe does anything there are posters that react, and then there are the ones that overreact, and then there are the ones that gratuitously overreact, and this has been Whacker’s MO on this forum and others since the first time Krgathorpe lost.

Brohm’s family gave this school a lot, and I seriouly doubt that contribution ended yesterday. At the same time, this problem started because Kragthorpe had to have so much carry over from the last staff. I wish he had been allowed to bring in everyone he wanted from day one, if for no other reason than there wouldn’t be this division of old regime vs. new regime. At the first sign of trouble people want someone to burn, and when you have this hodgepodge staff naturally lines are going to be drawn becasue no one knows who (cept Whacker of course) to blame. Choices are made, a fan base is fractured.

I’m not going to defend Kraghtorpe’s resume to this point, but I am going to defend my belief that any coach deserves their 4 years to do it “their way”. In Kraghtorpes case the issue is amplified by the fact that if we fire him we’re going to owe him a large sum of money, and that’s going to donkey punch any funds we might have to hire a new coach. Love him or hate him, from a pure fiscal point of view UL can’t dump him, even with the Whackers of the world holding their tickets hostage (those from that coalition that went to games anyway).

And here’s another point. At one time when Petrino was here people were knocking down the door for Brohm, and I have no doubt he’s a great QB coach. But i saw nothing last year that made me think he was a great OC. I mean yes clearly he called 100% of the successful plays and Kragthorpe called 100% of the unsuccessful ones (false), but the man’s tulsa teams had a good O, and two years ago our O wasn’t the reason that we were losing games. Furhthermore, I didn’t see a ton of schools offering him jobs this year, and when he did land in a job it was QB coach, not OC, at FAU.

So there it is, the situation with all it’s gray according to dlpfis. I firmly beleive that in 2 years we will either have a new coach or be happy with our current one, and I beleive all the cute names we invent in the mean time won’t change a thing. I also believe it’s in the programs best interest to have Kragthorpe work out because I do think he will stay here forever, at the same time I don’t see it happening.

It’s a fugly situation, no doubt, and no one is happy about it, but I feel like at this point it’s become trendy to fart in the dude’s purse every time he holds a presser.

by dlpfis79 on Feb 10, 2009 4:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree that there is a great deal of overreaction to everything Kragthorpe does, but your other statements represent an under-reaction of unjustifiable proportions.

First, the staff issue. Bringing in a totally new staff is what you do when you fire the old regime. When you are replacing a BCS-winning coach and stepping into a program on the rise, it is appropriate to keep members of the staff to: (1) reassure the players who have been working hard for the previous staff and have confidence in them; (2) reassure recruits that have committed to UofL that they should stay on board. In fact, Nord had been around since Schnelly, so that is 4 staffs changes that he survived because of his connection to the recruiting and the coaches. Not to mention that they hadn’t done anything to demonstrate that they shouldn’t be retained. In any event, Kragthorpe got rid of his own OC after the first season and his special teams coach this year, so his own picks haven’t panned out well, either.

Second, the 4-year guarantee makes no sense to me. Are we not supposed to watch the games until the 5th year, or are we supposed to ignore all the glaring problems that occur during those games? It’s not like the results have been mixed or that expecting better than 11-13 in a horrible league was setting expectations too high. I have no problem with him getting an extra year, but your position seems to be no matter how bad things are next year and no matter how bad recruiting goes afterwards, we have to sign on for a 4th year because maybe this is all one big mirage and he’s really building a top contender in front of our eyes. I’d like some evidence, though.

Third, we can afford to buy Kragthorpe out. I’m not sure he has many years left anyway, but just like with Cooper, TJ might be placed in a position where he can’t afford not to buy him out. We promised Petrino almost $1 million more per year than Kragthorpe. We paid Cooper over $1.5 million to leave, and that was before we received BCS money, money from the new stadium, Big East TV money, and all sorts of other money from the football program. We aren’t Alabama, but I highly suspect TJ could raise the money to buy Kragthorpe out with no more than 5 telephone calls to the right boosters.

Fourth, Brohm may very well need to go, and I certainly would like to see him succeed elsewhere before the university commits to giving him lifetime employment, but it would be impossible to judge him a failure as an OC based upon last year. Kragthorpe admitted that he was highly involved with game planning all week long, including what play they would call on 4th and short, etc., and also admitted that he took an active role in play calling during the 2nd game this season. So Brohm had one game – and a very bad one – against probably the best defense we played all season to demonstrate his OC ability. After that, Kragthorpe overruled at least 20% of his calls, and I would suggest that admitted to 20% probably means that it was at least 33%. In any event, if we don’t have any evidence that Brohm was worth keeping around after 1 year, why can’t we say the same thing about Kragthorpe after 2 years?

Fifth, I disagree that it is in our best interest to have Kragthorpe work out. While it would be great for him to completely reverse course, the evidence suggests to me that he would plateau as, at best, a 8-4 or 9-3 coach with a few rebuilding years in between and that we might never see another BCS game while he is here. The program has come a long way to settle for pretty good, and no one will convince me that in 2 years there will be any better evidence that we will be competing for conference championships year-in and year-out. I would love to be wrong, but he is flopping on every single front: recruiting, team management, player development, game planning, public relations. I really cannot think of a single thing he does well.

by 83fan on Feb 10, 2009 5:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry you feel that way

You can ease your own conscience and say I have overreacted to Kragthorpe, but it is, in fact, you who are guilty of underreacting, accepting scapegoating, and mediocrity. A coach who makes $1.5 million based on a flimsy resume deserves no guarantee of three or even four years. This is the real world and coaches are judged on wins and losses. Maybe you wish it weren’t that wat, but fairy tales can only be found in books.

On the one hand, you say a “coach”, and I use that term loosely with Kragthorpe, deserves four years to prove himself. Then on the other hand, you imply Brohm’s removal was fair because he showed nothing in just one year as OC. Why the double standard? Even worse, you imply others didn’t think much of Brohm because no one offered him other than FAU. Of course, that neglects the Alabama offer two years in a row, but it also neglects the fact no one tried to hire away our stellar coach this year.

In two years, Kragthorpe has had nearly three completely different staffs. Maybe the first staff was forced upon him, but what is your excuse for staff number two and staff number three? Were those coaches forced upon Kragthorpe as well. If that’s case, doesn’t it bother you that there is a man behind the curtain running the show for Kragthorpe? Choose one argument ands stick with it.

At least I am willing to take a position and defend it. You, on the other hand and by your own admission, are incapable of taking positions. Anyone who views life in shades of grey would, of course, never be willing to make a decision unless it was painfully obvious. As I said before, you can ease your own conscience by accusing me of overreacting, but when has the ulta negative view of Kragthorpe not been the correct view of his tenure?

Was it wrong after Syracuse 2007?
Was it wrong after Utah 2007?
Was it wrong after USF 2007?
Was it wrong after UK 2008?
Was it wrong after Syracuse 2008?
Was it wrong after Pitt 2008?
Was it wrong after WVU 2008?
Was it wrong after Rutgers 2008?

The answer, of course, is no. The negative view of Kragthorpe has been the correct view for his entire tenure. In the first year, he went 6-6 with a team that should have easily won at least nine games. In year two, he squandered and opportunity to play eight home games and finished the season with five losses, four of which were blowouts. Making matters worse, he has never been able to offer any answers other than cheap cliches. Now, he has burned what little remaining goodwill he had with the fans by effectively firing a person who has given many, many years of his life to the school.

Other than all this, Kragthorpe is doing a great job.

by Whacker77 on Feb 10, 2009 7:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Look dude

Here were my points.

1) Fiscally we are bound to Kragthorpe, period. It doesn’t matter if he wins many games or no games. That’s the way it is. This is no way supports or condemns him.
2) I do not think Kragthrope will make it past year 4, but i still beleive in major athletics everyone gets 4 years, even the really crappy one. But this whole argument is made moot by point 1.
3) Jurich forced him to keep Assistant coaches for fear that w/o some connection to the old, fans would be even more scared. Judging by the reaction over brohm leaving I would say he was right, but I wish from the get go Kragthorpe had his own staff 100% so it would be easier for me to say kragthorpe definitly sucks as opposed to Cassity definitly sucks, which I had been saying for years before I even knew who Kragthorpe was. BUt here’s the kicker, even with his own staff and 100000% certainty it’s all Krags fault, we’d still be in the financial situation we are in. Name calling, booing, bashing every recruit we get, and refusing to renew your tickets will not change this.
4) There’s a saying: Try to change the things that can be changes, accept the ones you can’t change, and learn to know the difference between them.

Do I like winning, yes. Am I upset we suck, yes. Do I thikn there are many reasons, outside of Kragthorpe that we’ve gotten to this point. Yes. Will UL football be down forever? No.

It’s that simple whacker. In the mean time list all the games you want. Hell I agree, and in my thread even said I don’t think Kragthorpe will make it past his 4th year here. I hate losing to SU, and UK, I f’in hate it. But even Petrino lost to RU, WVU, and South Florida.

I have 30 years of going to UL football under my belt, I’ve seen the good, the bad, and the fugly. And beleive me when I tell you that where we are now is only a relative low point to the last decade, not our history. I sat in the stands for every single one of Coopers games, I sat through every single game at the end of Denny’s tenure, and I will continue to go to the games and cheer on my team. In the mean time I will be optomistic about the players we have and hope for the best. Have some patience Whacker, the team will be relevant again.

by dlpfis79 on Feb 12, 2009 8:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Wow Whacker...

That is quite a few nicknames for KRAPthorpe

Goodnews is that when we have one of the worst offenses in the nation next year there is no possible way he can pass on the blame anymore, even though I’m sure he’ll try.

by MU2D on Feb 10, 2009 12:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

naaa, that's nothing

krapthorpe, poopthorpe, shit-thorpe, krapcooper, poopcooper, poopcoop…there’s a million of em

by davidson07 on Feb 10, 2009 3:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry, I fudged the keys somehow

Regardless of whether or not you like Kragthorpe, he’s going to be here until his contract runs out. Unless next year is a total flop and Jurich can find a suitable replacement.

Also, Scott Long is returning, Chichester is back and could be improved, Beaumont is back after gaining 700+ yards, and Bilal Powell is back as well.

We brought in some solid linebackers last year, all of whom are returning. Richard Raglin received his medical redshirt.

I just don’t see the point in bitching and moaning while Kragthorpe is here, because it’s not going to change anything. John L. Smith damn near had a losing record his final year. He lost to UK, Cincinnati, and Southern Miss. And the 35,000 fans who showed up to watch us play Florida State, and the 20,000 or less who stayed until the end of the game, do not regret standing by our team just because we had a down year. It happens.

This team does not have pockets as deep as other schools, so it would be very unwise to buy out Kragthorpe. Very often, boosters have the say in who’s being hired and fired. I would not be surprised at all if the big money was behind Cassity staying, and Jeff Brohm becoming OC last year.

And lastly, if people aren’t going to be happy with 8-4 or 9-3 seasons, well that’s just pathetic. Because 10 win seasons are few and far between in Louisville football history, and they’re meant to be enjoyed when you have them, but never expected. Should we strive for that? Of course. Should we fire a coach for getting 8 or 9 wins? Of course not. There are many fans who actually feel that we should be in the Orange Bowl, every other year at worst, or at least the Gator Bowl every year. Get real people. Jurich was right about you guys, and you make the rest of us look bad.

by Hari Seldon on Feb 10, 2009 6:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Accept mediocrity

So in other words, Tom Jurich’s word is as good as the word of God. Results don’t matter as long as a coach has a contract. Wow, that makes me feel much better. You mention a lot of names, but these are guys who have proven nothing on the field. Why will it be different next year with a JUCO QB? The answer is, it won’t be. Tell yourself a warm and cozy tale if that makes you feel better.

by Whacker77 on Feb 10, 2009 8:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You aren’t making many coherent points. I have no idea if Kragthorpe will get another year or not, but I feel pretty certain he hasn’t earned it and there aren’t sufficient reasons to give it to him.

Yes, Long, Chichester, Beaumont, and Powell are a pretty good returning group of players. Know who was better? Brohm, HD, Urrutia, Allen, Stripling, Long, and Barnidge. Guess how well Kragthorpe did with them.

What’s your point with John L.? Yes, he did a terrible job with the 2002 team, and yes, I was there until the end of the FSU game and enjoyed the heck out of it. Still was a terrible coaching job, and we were still better off with John L. moving on.

The program has deep enough pockets to buy out Kragthorpe, and more importantly, what is it going to do with all of those new seats if Kragthorpe is around in 2010? We can’t afford to keep this guy around if next season goes 4-8, which is very, very likely.

You can argue about pathetic straw men all you want, but I’m not saying he should be fired for a 8-4 or 9-3 season. Right now, I would jump for joy if he could reach such a plateau. What I’m saying is that giving this guy the benefit of the doubt, I see him peaking at 8-4. No one can complain about 8-4 generally speaking (although it would have been a failure with the 2007 team and yet Kragthorpe found a way to do worse), but accepting Kragthorpe is accepting the International Bowl as your program’s pinnacle.

What is ridiculous and pathetic is the constant refrain from Kragthorpe defenders that everyone is demanding an Orange Bowl every season. That is the most disconnected argument I have ever seen. Face reality. We just played in the worst Big East we will ever hope to see — the most wide open and mediocre collection of teams this conference will put together, and where did we finish? 8th. That’s out of 8 teams. Last. Dead last. The notion that people are unrealisticly expecting first and second place finishes is such utter crap. Just make a freaking bowl with a team full of NFLers one time? How on earth is that unrealistic?

by 83fan on Feb 10, 2009 10:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Just one more yr of this nonsense

that’s the only thing that makes me smile

by frankpos on Feb 11, 2009 7:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry

The first part of my post got cut off. I think I hit preview somehow and thought I had already posted the first half of it.

I agree with dlpfs79. In short, his point and my point, is that Kragthorpe is our coach next year, regardless of how much we piss and moan, so we might as well quit pissing and moaning and go cheer for the team. If next year is a flop, then TJ will fix it. All in due time. If people think TJ won’t fix it, then you’re foolish. He fired a Hall of Fame basketball coach, he’ll certainly fire Krag if need be.

I think that one reason TJ is being lenient so far with Krag is because he was forced to keep people in the program in a vain attempt at continuity. As for your comments about how well he did with guys like Brohm, HD, etc., well, we were still one of the top 5 offensive programs in the country. And that was with Urrutia with a bad case of Pussitis and George Stripling hitting the bong hard before every game. Our problem that year was with the defense. One of the guys he was forced to keep was Cassity, who was promptly replaced the following season with Ron English.

Let’s not forget that the bigger a program gets, the less regular fans mean in terms of influence. Big, old money is influencing our program just like any in the SEC. Owsleys, Browns, Fraziers, Schnatters, The Sun Tan City family, etc., all have a lot of pull when it comes to naming coaches and making big financial decisions with this program. That was the tradeoff in getting them to build and later expand our stadium. Trying to appease them is probably what caused a lot of the holdovers from the Petrino era. None of us have any idea what actually goes on in the program and what influences the decisions being made. The only fans that really matter are the top 5-10% or so of the members of the CAF.

Please clarify for me how “not happy with an 8-4 or 9-3” record is different from “wanting an Orange Bowl every year”. Because if we finished with 10 wins (as Cincy did this year), that gives you a realistic shot at the Orange Bowl or at least the Gator Bowl. You can’t say you don’t want an Orange Bowl every year and then say you’re not going to settle for an 8-4 or 9-3 season. Because the two are equivalent.

At that point, you’re not even talking about Kragthorpe any more, but setting yourself up for disappointment regardless of who the next coach will be.

How did Schnelly do after the Fiesta Bowl win? 2-9. Did he go to another bowl? Yes, the Liberty Bowl with Jeff Brohm as QB. Does anyone remember that he left UofL with an overall losing record? Very seldom. So to EXPECT an 8-9 win season EVERY SEASON is ridiculous. To COMPETE for those types of records is realistic. And if the coach has too many down years in a row, then get rid of him.

by Hari Seldon on Feb 11, 2009 9:13 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

It's not hard to read:

“peaking at 8-4” and “at best, a 8-4 or 9-3 coach.” So no, I’m not happy with a coach I am generously projecting as capable of winning 8 or 9 games every once in a while. In any event, Kragthorpe’s next 7 win season and next bowl trip will be his first, so let’s talk about reality, not hypotheticals. 8th place in the worst conference we will ever face. 8th freaking place.

In 2007, we were a top 5 offense in total yards, but that was only because we ran a pass-happy offense and spent most of our time trying to catch up in the 4th quarters. We had 35% of our yards against Murray State (abismal team), MTSU (because we needed every point in that game), and Syracuse (trying to catch up late in the game). The offense struggled to put points on the board in the first half that whole year, and given the calibre players on the team, it was complete failure. That top 5 offense earned us no bowl and a finish in the bottom half of a bad conference.

I have been a fan of the program and attended all home games since before Howard came. I know the history of the program extremely well, and know how hard we all have worked to get the program where it is. If you really believe that comparing the program where it was after the Fiesta Bowl game and after the Orange Bowl game is a fair comparison, then I just don’t know what to tell you. I will renew my season tickets this year and will cheer just like before. I have earned the right to point out the obvious.

by 83fan on Feb 11, 2009 9:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Tolerating this horror show is NOT ACCEPTABLE

So you’re saying winning seasons in a crappy conference is unrealistic? 8-9 wins a year in this league, with who we schedule in our non-conference is unrealistic? Forgive me, but pull your head out of your ass. Let’s review. 6 wins gets us no bowl. One more win may get us a bowl. Is a 7 win season a good thing for you? Let’s just say we eeke out another win. That makes 8. In this league. 8 wins. Sounds pretty damn reasonable to me. This is not unrealistic. This is to be expected. Period.

Go Cards!

by Red Rage on Feb 11, 2009 9:37 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I never said

I never said we should be happy or settle for mediocre seasons. I’ve simply said quit bitching about it. It’s getting old. It’s over. Let it go just like we did in the past with Cooper and move on. Kragthorpe’s going to be here for at least one more season. Are 3/4’s of all the articles and posts of UofL football before next season going to be big bitch sessions about the state of the program or the head coach?

by Hari Seldon on Feb 11, 2009 9:58 AM EST reply actions 0 recs